Which city is more liberal? Fayetteville, AR or Berkeley, CA

[Kevroqs]

Originally Posted by NCN

Any town in California is going to be more liberal than any town in Arkansas.

The bay area and Los Angeles are the most liberal areas in California. Everywhere else is either 50/50 or leans conservative.

[boulder2015]

[quote=SocSciProf;48772743][quote=Ruth4Truth;48772670]I have a completely different experience in the Berkeley hills than you.

RE: the anarchists, I'm going by the reports about the events that the poster I was originally responding to repeatedly decries on as many threads as possible. That's all. You seem to be trying awfully hard to corner me, and accuse me of something, it's not clear what. This really isn't complicated. And I have no idea what you're talking about re: race-baiting. Why would referring to an anarchist groups as being from Oakland = race-baiting?

Because they are not from Oakland. Most of the reports you're referring to don't say "from Oakland," they say "not from Berkeley," and many of them say "not from Oakland" when the protest was in Oakland. Its you that apparently reads "not from Berkeley" as "Oakland." The self-proclaimed anarchists are refugees from and claim to be inspired by the Seattle WTO protests. About the only thing they have to do with Oakland is using it as a punching bag every time there's a peaceful protest.



Obviously, all of Oakland is not non-white. But the media representation of Oakland is as if its a city of blacks, run by blacks, to the detriment of blacks. That's why your claim is race-baiting, even if you did not mean it as such. You make your claim in a public forum that has dozens of people saying negative things about Oakland and doing so in a racist manner. You can't saunter in, say something negative and untrue, and then claim "I'm innocent--I'm a good person, yo!"

You can keep pretending not to understand what I'm saying. You can ignore what I'm saying. But you can't truthfully deny what I'm saying. Know what I'm saying?

Peace out.

1. Oakland is not nearly as black as it once was. Not even 30%
2. Most of the rioters are white.
3. Many of them live in oakland as they cannot afford sf or berkeley. Hell,many of them can barely afford oak any more, which is part of why they are so pissed. They thought it would stay cheap for ever, but their very presence helped gentrify it. It is called gentrinarchy. First come the bike repair coops, anarchist collective performance spaces, and radical bookstores, which replace the pawn shops, liquor stores, and crack houses. Then come the yoga pants stores, fancy bistros, and art galleries. The white anarchists think they are becoming "one with the brown people" , when really they are clearing the way for the next wave of gentrification... which they will then endlessly gripe about on facebook when their rents shoot up.

[boulder2015]

Also, socsciprof, i am not disagreeing that stuff gets blamed on oak that isnt its fault. That is a long and continuing trend. For example, many crime incidents in sf are greeted with "must be the thugs from oak" , thereby ignoring the longstanding gang and crime issues in the mission, bayview, excelsior, and hunters pt areas. But in the case of anarchists... yeah a lot of them live in oak these days. As least until they give up and get priced out to vallejo or antioch.

[mstnghu2]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Of course residents bat an eye when campus protests are hijacked by ultra-radical elements from Oakland. The violence comes from Oakland residents, not Berkeley ones, so your statement that Berkeley's "excessively liberal" compared to Oakland doesn't hold water. It's Oakland that has trashed Berkeley on those occasions you love to be so vocal about. (As you would know, if you paid attention to the local media, without running the reports through your own twisted info filter.)

My guess is that the "strange hostile vibe" you feel when you visit Berkeley is your own anger reflected back at yourself. Take a leisurely stroll through some of the tree-lined neighborhoods in the hills, enjoying the views of the Bay, the residential architecture, and the gardens all around you. Stop by the rose garden on Euclid Avenue, as you explore the neighborhood. Report back about the vibe you encounter.

Seriously? Maybe I just can't stand passive-aggressive behavior and I admit that I tend to be hyper-sensitive to it...hence, why I'm responding to your post. Apparently, I'm not spending enough time dealing with my anger and taking leisurely strolls through Berkeley's tree-line neighborhoods.

Anyways, I've spent lots of time in Berkeley over the years. I've hung out downtown more times than I can count. I've gone to concerts at the Greek theater. I've hung out all around the UC campus. I've hung out in Berkeley as a young single guy and now as a married guy with a young kid, which means I've done "family" type of stuff too (Adventure Playground, Habitot Childrens' Museum, Tilden Regional Park etc.). I've wandered aimlessly (walking and driving) as both a single guy and a married parent throughout many of its neighborhoods, sometimes lost and sometimes by choice. I've experienced plenty of the city and am more than qualified to provide information to inquiring minds.

From a strictly aesthetic point of view, Berkeley is awesome. There are also many other qualities to appreciate about it, which is why I've gone back so many times over the years! HOWEVER, there is definitely a bizarre, angry sort of vibe about the place that I picked up on years ago and have even expressed that to friends of mine who've agreed with me.

As a side note that may seem petty- the most ridiculous and completely unexpected horrible restaurant experience I've ever had in my life was in Berkeley...by a white-guy server (I'm white, BTW) at an Indian restaurant. This may seem petty and irrelevant, but it was pretty much the icing on the cake as far as my Berkeley experience has gone over the years.

Lastly, I'm sure Oaklanders will fully appreciate your comments as well. FYI, I've also spent plenty of time in Oakland too...in good and bad parts of the city.

[joejerryronnie]

I believe Berkeley has crossed the line from liberalism to anarchism.

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by mstnghu2

^^^^ 100% spot-on!

The stereotypical Berkeley mindset is "live and let live...the way WE live"

I 100% agree, and repped SSP and you as well. IMO, those of us who know Berkeley well can particularly appreciate SSP's post. A number of posters use 'liberal' when what they really mean is progressive (rather than classically liberal). On this thread, I used liberal rather than progressive because the OP was doing so (easier to advise the OP), and I imagine you used liberal for that reason as well. Of course each delineation that SSP presented is exactly correct. Loved Ruth's reply as well, and will rep.

P.S. -- Sorry Ruth, the system won't let me rep you again (I was trying to rep post #14 on the thread)

[Rebelfootball]

Originally Posted by NCN

Any town in California is going to be more liberal than any town in Arkansas. Love Arkansas. We don't even consider anything about California normal. Not mad at them or anything but when someone states what happened in California, we just roll our eyes and say, "That's California for you." Maybe it has to do with how often the ground shakes out there.

Huh?

[04kL4nD]

California isn't that liberal anymore. It's certainly not as progressive as people from other conservative places think it is. We just got around to legalizing marijuana. Lots of other states legalized gay marriage before we did. We are anti-building ANYTHING. The red tape here is unfathomable. NIMBYism is rampant on both sides and nobody can agree of much on anything anymore. That's not progress- it's stagnation. The only thing keeping us afloat is a booming tech economy that could collapse pretty easily. Everyone here loves money, good weather, nice scenery. But that's about all 40M people can agree on.

Portland and Seattle certainly feel a lot more politically progressive than here. At least they're trying to build new construction and house people. Every now and then I see a #blackslives matter in a window around the Bay Area, but it's nothing like what I see up there where they're all over the place. Yeah, it's way whiter and less diverse up there, but it feels more united and cohesive to me.

The Bay Area has an extremely loud, vocal minority of liberal extremists, but most people who view life with such an extremely warped and narrow worldview can't afford to live here anymore- it's too expensive. Unless you're a student or have super wealthy parents, who actually has the time to make so much noise? Yeah, I was furious after election, but life goes on and bills have to be paid.

I was in DC recently visiting friends/family and if you think the anti-Trump vibe is bad here, it's even worse out there- it's on the street level and palpable in a way that's depressing. Imagine living within a Metro stop or two of the Whitehouse and knowing that the helicopters flying above are associated with a person you absolutely loathe.

People here are too busy making money or trying to make ends meet, and while they may whine and post about it on Facebook, the whole 'special liberal snowflake' thing is a bit overblown. In DC, people there actually work in politics and the echo chamber is beyond deafening. I'm super anti-Trump, but my weekends don't consist of rallies/protests with my all my coworkers. If you don't believe me, maybe you haven't gotten out of the Bay Area and seen other places recently...

With that said, I still love it here, warts and all. California is the only place I ever really feel 'at home'

[ssmaster]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

This has nothing to do with knees jerking. It's a known fact, reported in the media, and denounced by university administration, that it was those very Anarchists from Oakland who come into Berkeley to hijack peaceful protests. My post was to correct the disinformation campaign a couple of posters enjoy waging, here. You're ok with letting Oakland off the hook for being held hostage by Anarchists, but you want to blame Berkeley for occasional incidents of being held hostage by the very same people?

If, out of all the options for visiting and enjoying Berkeley, someone who obsesses over a "weird, hostile vibe" (attributed, note, in a generalized statement to the entire city), would go to People's Park, a location known for at least 30 years to be prone to crime and homelessness, it would seem they're only seeking to confirm their bias, don't you think? One square block, out of the entire city?

I want to keep this simple.Please link to the media reports that demonstrate the anarchist were from Oakland.