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What I find interesting (if not comical) on threads like this is the OP listed a legitimate question and a real concern. Instead of having a reasonable conversation, it always resorts to certain posters with this self righteous indignation. They ignore the things you posted and the alternatives, and then try and poo poo any place that isn't San Francisco. I listed a few metroplexes and there are plenty of others where you can live considerably more comfortable than San Francisco. And sorry, but it's not like every place is inferior to San Francisco (and clearly it's about personal preference). Instead of acknowledging this, we have comments like "Find me ONE city with good jobs/salaries where there are zero negative issues, and I’ll move there tomorrow". Yeah, how many places does anyone know that have "zero" negative issues in the U.S., let alone the world. But this is the kind of nonsense that you get.
Everything you pointed out are issues that are very real to San Francisco (and I will add to that lack of diversity of people and thought) . And no, there aren't any places with zero issues, but there are certainly many that don't have issues as bad. There are certainly places where your money will go much further. There are certainly places where traffic (both car and foot traffic) isn't as bad. But unfortunately, there are those that simply thumb their noses up to anywhere that isn't San Francisco. There's nothing wrong with civic pride (for those that actually live here), but some of this superior BS is a little over the top.
The OP was clearly "taken aback by the prices" (apparently he doesn't feel it's worth it). If you do, and can afford it, then good for you. But there are plenty of people (including "natives") that don't think it's worth it. And there's nothing wrong with that and no need to just try and belittle any place that isn't SF just because some people are apparently offended by it.
Agree, and from what I’ve seen of being here 4 years now, it seemed to start not being worth it at least two years ago with all the other issues mentioned. I keep saying to myself, 8 years at most to retirement to somewhere in SoCal, realizing that things can change there as well.
It is if one chooses to rent (as many of us in our 40’s do) - and I don’t agree that you must OWN a home to be considered middle class. If you earn the equivalent of a middle-class salary, and aren’t using it all on debts, then that’s what you are.
I said middleclass lifestyle. Sociologists and economists determine class by consumption not salary because because of geographic variation in cost of living.
Owning a home in a desirable area
Sending kids to good public school or private school
Owning a car
Saving for retirement
Saving for kids college
Affording a vacation at least once a year (not camping!)
People in the Bay Area believe these are luxuries. This is not luxury living.
This is what is considered middle class or upper middle class lifestyle in America. In the urbancore Bay Area you will need at least $350,000(likely more).
If you are in SAN Francisco and living the same lifestyle as someone making $18,000 in Modesto you are not living a middle class lifestyle.
And Saying I chose to rent if you make enough to buy would be foolish because if you are making that kind of money you need the tax deductions especially in California.
I said middleclass lifestyle. Sociologists and economists determine class by consumption not salary because because of geographic variation in cost of living.
Owning a home in a desirable area
Sending kids to good public school or private school
Owning a car
Saving for retirement
Saving for kids college
Affording a vacation at least once a year (not camping!)
People in the Bay Area believe these are luxuries. This is not luxury living.
This is what is considered middle class or upper middle class lifestyle in America. In the urbancore Bay Area you will need at least $350,000(likely more).
If you are in SAN Francisco and living the same lifestyle as someone making $18,000 in Modesto you are not living a middle class lifestyle.
And Saying I chose to rent if you make enough to buy would be foolish because if you are making that kind of money you need the tax deductions especially in California.
I can tell you that my household makes over $350k and I can afford the above. By this definition, we'd be considered middle class, even a little better. However, we still aren't sure we want to live in the Bay Area long-term, for the following reasons:
-While we can afford to live in a good school district and having a nice home, it comes at a cost (long commute)
-It feels like despite our good incomes, we're just keeping up, not really getting ahead. This is due to not just having high housing costs, but high costs of daycare and higher costs of just about everything else (gas, food, services - gardener/housekeeper/home maintenance, etc.)
-Living in a nice area, there is a pressure to keep up with the Jones'. We end up spending more on cars, food, outings, etc. Yes, this is a personal choice, but it weighs heavily. When you live in a nicer area (regardless of where), you feel this pressure. In the Bay Area, where expenses already make it tight, this makes it worse.
-Monolithic tech culture - I like gadgets like everyone else and am thankful for the job opportunities. At the same time, this is over the top. It creates a culture where everyone is just out for themselves and is very cut throat. It doesn't feel like people are really investing in building relationships outside of work and it can create a feeling of loneliness.
I can tell you that my household makes over $350k and I can afford the above. By this definition, we'd be considered middle class, even a little better. However, we still aren't sure we want to live in the Bay Area long-term, for the following reasons:
-While we can afford to live in a good school district and having a nice home, it comes at a cost (long commute)
-It feels like despite our good incomes, we're just keeping up, not really getting ahead. This is due to not just having high housing costs, but high costs of daycare and higher costs of just about everything else (gas, food, services - gardener/housekeeper/home maintenance, etc.)
-Living in a nice area, there is a pressure to keep up with the Jones'. We end up spending more on cars, food, outings, etc. Yes, this is a personal choice, but it weighs heavily. When you live in a nicer area (regardless of where), you feel this pressure. In the Bay Area, where expenses already make it tight, this makes it worse.
-Monolithic tech culture - I like gadgets like everyone else and am thankful for the job opportunities. At the same time, this is over the top. It creates a culture where everyone is just out for themselves and is very cut throat. It doesn't feel like people are really investing in building relationships outside of work and it can create a feeling of loneliness.
Your income in someplace like Houston or Atlanta would go a lot further and you would be more comfortable. Things such early retirement or a vacation home may be in reach.It's reasonable to decide the sacrifices to live in the central Bay Area are not best for your family.
I'm sure someone is going to post how $350,000 is a lot of money and they would be living it up. No that would be a middle or upper middle class lifestyle here.
I can tell you that my household makes over $350k and I can afford the above. By this definition, we'd be considered middle class, even a little better. However, we still aren't sure we want to live in the Bay Area long-term, for the following reasons:
-While we can afford to live in a good school district and having a nice home, it comes at a cost (long commute)
-It feels like despite our good incomes, we're just keeping up, not really getting ahead. This is due to not just having high housing costs, but high costs of daycare and higher costs of just about everything else (gas, food, services - gardener/housekeeper/home maintenance, etc.)
-Living in a nice area, there is a pressure to keep up with the Jones'. We end up spending more on cars, food, outings, etc. Yes, this is a personal choice, but it weighs heavily. When you live in a nicer area (regardless of where), you feel this pressure. In the Bay Area, where expenses already make it tight, this makes it worse.
-Monolithic tech culture - I like gadgets like everyone else and am thankful for the job opportunities. At the same time, this is over the top. It creates a culture where everyone is just out for themselves and is very cut throat. It doesn't feel like people are really investing in building relationships outside of work and it can create a feeling of loneliness.
I could have created a list a mile long, and you will still have posters on this board chime in with their "Oh, I couldn't live there. The humidity would curl my hair". It's always something with the "superior" crowd.
I can tell you that my household makes over $350k and I can afford the above. By this definition, we'd be considered middle class, even a little better. However, we still aren't sure we want to live in the Bay Area long-term, for the following reasons:
-While we can afford to live in a good school district and having a nice home, it comes at a cost (long commute)
-It feels like despite our good incomes, we're just keeping up, not really getting ahead. This is due to not just having high housing costs, but high costs of daycare and higher costs of just about everything else (gas, food, services - gardener/housekeeper/home maintenance, etc.)
-Living in a nice area, there is a pressure to keep up with the Jones'. We end up spending more on cars, food, outings, etc. Yes, this is a personal choice, but it weighs heavily. When you live in a nicer area (regardless of where), you feel this pressure. In the Bay Area, where expenses already make it tight, this makes it worse.
-Monolithic tech culture - I like gadgets like everyone else and am thankful for the job opportunities. At the same time, this is over the top. It creates a culture where everyone is just out for themselves and is very cut throat. It doesn't feel like people are really investing in building relationships outside of work and it can create a feeling of loneliness.
At 350K you are definitely upper-middle class. Plus, you have a housekeeper and gardener? Most middle class people don't have those luxuries.
At 350K you are definitely upper-middle class. Plus, you have a housekeeper and gardener? Most middle class people don't have those luxuries.
I never said we were struggling financially. Then again, we're working 50-60 hour weeks + have long commutes, so this doesn't leave much time for house/yard work.
I want to work as a registered nurse in San Fran, due to the high wages, but am unsure of where I would stay overnight, or getting around town. Maybe BART, uber, or walk/bike. I'd fly in for 3 shifts and then fly home to Nevada. Anyone have any recommendations? Couch surfing opportunities for a few times a week?
You don't necessarily have to work in SF proper to get high wages... much of the Bay Area is very similar...
Last year I met a traveler RN that rented a room in SF for the SF experience but took BART to her job in Oakland... what was really expensive was the $400 a month she paid to park her car several blocks from her room... she was getting to many parking tickets and having to move her car at odd hours and in general trouble finding a place to park..
I never said we were struggling financially. Then again, we're working 50-60 hour weeks + have long commutes, so this doesn't leave much time for house/yard work.
And I never said you were? However, now that you mention it...
Quote:
We end up spending more on cars, food, outings, etc. Yes, this is a personal choice, but it weighs heavily. When you live in a nicer area (regardless of where), you feel this pressure. In the Bay Area, where expenses already make it tight, this makes it worse.
You're making it harder on yourself when you don't have to.
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