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Old 12-29-2018, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,249 posts, read 5,129,478 times
Reputation: 7237

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Quote:
Originally Posted by likealady View Post
I liked SF when I was there, but even some of us get tired of paying such high prices to live in crime and squalor in our own high-priced area (I lived in what is now the 'East Cut'). No one is saying there's "rivers of poo and needles flowing through the street" what an asinine and exaggerated comment to make. A comment an apologist makes. I don't have an issue with you liking SF, I do too. There's a lot to do and plenty to eat, but I do take issue with people like you who insist its problems aren't that bad or widespread. These are the ones who've let it get that bad, they didn't hold the city accountable and acted like it was business as usual, it'd take care of itself. You people voted for taxing businesses to deal with the homeless problem as if it was their fault. It's not. The city has been too lax about the issue for half a decade now. You, and all of us, should expect better from one of the richest and most frequently visited cities in the country

Quote:
Originally Posted by likealady View Post
And just so we're clear, the homeless problem has gotten so bad it's starting to seep into my city, by my home, and I've already taken action in getting the city/police to deal with it (and the mounds of trash it creates) because I didn't move here to live in the same conditions we see in Oakland and SF. So if you think I just sit here complaining and twiddling my thumbs, you're wrong.
Same here...these folks are disgusting and ruin any area they invade and set up living quarters on.
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Old 12-29-2018, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Pac Heights San Francisco
324 posts, read 138,923 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by likealady View Post
First off, I lived in SF for far longer than you sir and only moved out when I purchased a home very recently. I live a 20 min drive away and go into the city frequently. So stop acting like I live out in Sac or Stockton and only see the city 2 times a year. A large part of the reason we decided to move when our lease was up was because we didn't want to have to explain to our future children on a daily basis why the man across the street wasn't peeing in a proper restroom, or why this other person was sleeping on the sidewalk, or why they can't walk through certain areas, or why they shouldn't touch 'that orange thing'. Not to mention the health mess it's becoming (as shown in the CNN article), which poses a real risk to children who don't have the same immune system and hygiene habits of us adults.

I liked SF when I was there, but even some of us get tired of paying such high prices to live in crime and squalor in our own high-priced area (I lived in what is now the 'East Cut'). No one is saying there's "rivers of poo and needles flowing through the street" what an asinine and exaggerated comment to make. A comment an apologist makes. I don't have an issue with you liking SF, I do too. There's a lot to do and plenty to eat, but I do take issue with people like you who insist its problems aren't that bad or widespread. These are the ones who've let it get that bad, they didn't hold the city accountable and acted like it was business as usual, it'd take care of itself. You people voted for taxing businesses to deal with the homeless problem as if it was their fault. It's not. The city has been too lax about the issue for half a decade now. You, and all of us, should expect better from one of the richest and most frequently visited cities in the country.

I just wanted you to admit it's more than just a "small area or small problem" - and includes the Mission, which FYI is more than just the area around Tartine Bakery- which is probably the most "cleaned up" area aside from Valencia St. I should have expected that, you do live in Pac Heights after all.

And just so we're clear, the homeless problem has gotten so bad it's starting to seep into my city, by my home, and I've already taken action in getting the city/police to deal with it (and the mounds of trash it creates) because I didn't move here to live in the same conditions we see in Oakland and SF. So if you think I just sit here complaining and twiddling my thumbs, you're wrong.
Thanks for this much more considered response. I'll address it as best I can.

I have a friend who lives in One Rincon in your old neighborhood (now called The East Cut). A fair assessment of the area would note that it has been, in its entirety a construction zone for more than 10-15 years, wouldn't you agree? Before, it was abandoned warehouses. It is now the site of one of the most publicized case studies in urban renewal in the country.

As anyone who has ever dealt with even a small-scale construction zone will tell you, that kind of activity disrupts the fabric of the place around it until its done. The East Cut is a massive, urban renewal project that covers block after block of new highrises, each of which takes a year or more to complete and completely disrupts the area in the process.

So, yes, there has been a homeless issue in the area, but as we agreed earlier in the thread, it is not the kind of thing that is happening in the Tenderloin, which is what that CNN story is talking about.

Also, about a year ago, there was a very public rousting of a homeless encampment around there. So, as I stated, yes--a piece of the problem stretches beyond the small area of concentration I illustrated. There's no denying that. The difference is that in the case of your old neighborhood, the problem isn't entrenched and can be improved upon (or possibly eliminated) through changing policies and/or improving resources.

That is nothing like the out-of-control situation in the CNN story you reference, which is, in my opinion (gained from very recent street-level assessment) confined to the small area I noted.

That's where the seemingly insurmountable QOL issues for visitors and some residents persist. In other areas they are far less intense or not present at all, and are thus, far more manageable. Plus, since you left, I have noticed Mayor Breed's efforts to put more walking police on the street. Anecdotally, I think it's working.

Regarding the Mission--as you note, all the gentrification for years was focused on Valencia St. The places I went last night were all the way on the other side of the neighborhood on the "wrong" side of Mission St. It's not just a couple places popping up, either, there's new-construction housing and a lot of small businesses opening too. There were also 5-6 very nice restaurants and bars on that one block where we were (again, many many blocks away from Valencia. It's connected by 20th streets shops and stores--many of which look local and original. Isn't that a sign that the cleanup is working?

That's how renewal works. It happens a block at a time. That's why, when you overstate problems like this as city-wide and bigger than they are, they appear insurmountable. However, If you make your focus block-to-block, you solve the problem... slowly. The only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time.

Kudos to you for being active in your new community. I wish more people like you would have stayed here in SF and focused the same energy on their blocks.

As for mine in Pac Heights, which you mention seemingly to discredit my opinion, it is, as you'd expect, pristine. It's also a short walk (which I have taken many times) from that red zone. True, I haven't lived here long, but I see many signs of that red zone shrinking and the infrastructure in and around it improving. I contribute to that improvement whenever I can.
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Old 12-29-2018, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Pac Heights San Francisco
324 posts, read 138,923 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
We went to a show at the Warfield last night...was a crazed cesspool all around and in front of the Warfield.

For a city to just turn it's head at the crazed and drugged out people who hang around this overrated outdated concert venue says a lot about the people living in SF.
Yes, this is another report from the same area. That is Mid Market/Tenderloin and is the source of all the angst.
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Old 12-29-2018, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,249 posts, read 5,129,478 times
Reputation: 7237
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF View Post
Yes, this is another report from the same area. That is Mid Market/Tenderloin and is the source of all the angst.
First your unsubstantiated comment of the Mid Market/Tenderloin being the "source of all the angst", is just that...unsubstantiated.

There are more areas then just the Mid Market/Tenderloin that have these issues.
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Old 12-29-2018, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Pac Heights San Francisco
324 posts, read 138,923 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
I have been told that the Hippie essence of San Francisco is gone. That the Haight and Ahsbury area has changed too much. Is there anyone can go to still experience true Hippie culture in the Bay area?
I think there are echoes of it in Northern Marin County, but only echoes. I know a guy who lives in Fairfax and describes his neighbors as "Hippie Millionaires".

I hear Mendocino and Humboldt Counties still fly a Freak Flag (as Dave Crosby says), but that's not the Bay Area.
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Old 12-29-2018, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Pac Heights San Francisco
324 posts, read 138,923 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
First your unsubstantiated comment of the Mid Market/Tenderloin being the "source of all the angst", is just that...unsubstantiated.

There are more areas then just the Mid Market/Tenderloin that have these issues.
Where, outside the Mid Market/Tenderloin area, have you seen conditions the size and scope of this area?
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Old 12-29-2018, 03:43 PM
 
27,009 posts, read 29,478,442 times
Reputation: 26322
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF View Post
Kudos to you for being active in your new community. I wish more people like you would have stayed here in SF and focused the same energy on their blocks.
I think such people do try for a while, but they get completely frustrated and burned out over time when no positive changes take place and/or when their efforts are stymied by City Hall and professional enablers who seem to care about the rights of homeless people more than anyone else.
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Old 12-29-2018, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Pac Heights San Francisco
324 posts, read 138,923 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I think such people do try for a while, but they get completely frustrated and burned out over time when no positive changes take place and/or when their efforts are stymied by City Hall and professional enablers who seem to care about the rights of homeless people more than anyone else.
Please explain what you mean by "professional enablers".
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Old 12-29-2018, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,249 posts, read 5,129,478 times
Reputation: 7237
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF View Post
Where, outside the Mid Market/Tenderloin area, have you seen conditions the size and scope of this area?
Logic, math and getting out more would certainly tell any observable human that this issue can be seen all over the city. Think about it...nearly a quarter of the Bay Area's total homeless population is squeezed into just 49 square miles. Sure there are areas of higher concentration over other areas...but to make the claim that it's only in the Mid Market/Tenderloin is disingenuous.

It's not rocket science.
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Old 12-29-2018, 05:42 PM
 
27,009 posts, read 29,478,442 times
Reputation: 26322
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF View Post
Please explain what you mean by "professional enablers".
Organizations like the ACLU that fight against homeless sweeps, as is happening in Hawaii.

https://www.kitv.com/story/39687873/...-christmas-eve

And others in our state who sponsor legislation such as this:

https://chronicleofsocialchange.org/...rest-in-public
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