U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California > San Francisco - Oakland
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-30-2018, 05:45 PM
 
Location: SF, CA
1,670 posts, read 802,375 times
Reputation: 2653

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF View Post
Of course! Moreover, The point I'm making about containment means that even the overwhelming majority (meaning 90%+) of middle class residential SF, while not necessarily being immune to the effects of homelessness, is not confronted with them in any real QOL-affecting way outside the Mid Market/Tenderloin area. Admittedly "middle class" in SF is a flashpoint term, as it would count as wealthy virtually anywhere else in the country.

Now, this in no way is intended to diminish the problem. It is indeed large and demands attention! What is so worrisome is, in fact, how contained, yet inexplicably persistent the problem is. By official accounts, as many as 1/2 of the City's homeless live in this single, compact area of Mid Market/Tenderloin. I'd further argue (anecdotally) that the ones here are the most troubled of our homeless residents--the unsheltered, mentally ill and drug-addicted homeless. The fact that the City is unable to effectively address a problem so neatly contained speaks to the complexity of the problem beyond the obvious.

That's why a realistic perspective is important if we ever want to truly address it. SF's city-wide homeless problem cannot be honestly framed in an out-of-towner's view after a visit to Mid Market/Tenderloin, no matter how compelling a headline that image makes.

In fact, that is the problem--because the most egregious problem is relegated to a largely "no-fly-zone" for residents, it's out-of-sight, out-of-mind for the great majority of us. The fact that our neighborhoods are such a dramatic departure from what visitors to the adjacent tourist zone see makes us blind to the issue. That's not right, but it is the case.

As you point out, neighborhoods directly adjacent to this area (even those without the political insulation you mention) such as Nob Hill, Pac Heights, Cow Hollow, Russian Hill, The Marina, are quite free of its QOL problems within their neighborhoods. Further afield residents of places like Presidio Heights, Sunset, Richmond, Lake Street, Laurel Heights, Sea Cliff, etc. may occasionally come in contact with a homeless person, but that is not a QOL moment for those people anymore than coming into contact with a person of a different race or political leaning is.

No, our neighborhoods are not overrun. That's not as juicy a headline, but it should put the problem in a better, more addressable perspective for San Franciscan who wish to deal with the obviously large and pressing problem, rather than sensationalize it for other agendas.
Well-put!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-30-2018, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,249 posts, read 5,126,587 times
Reputation: 7237
Some interesting points found in this link.

Is San Francisco Overrated?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2018, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
32,845 posts, read 14,865,925 times
Reputation: 23634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Since you don't think SF is overrated then what's your agenda with posting 63 posts most of which are over the top off topic or insulting posts?
That's your 'go to' response when you get backed in a corner, isn't it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2018, 07:32 PM
 
1,948 posts, read 704,411 times
Reputation: 1490
Do you think SF mass transit is overrated? Does anyone actually enjoy traveling at ten miles per hour on the Muni Metro?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2018, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,249 posts, read 5,126,587 times
Reputation: 7237
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
That's your 'go to' response when you get backed in a corner, isn't it?
LOL what corner was I backed into?

The poster you are butting in on is notorious for twisting what others post into whatever weird personal narrative he conjures up in his mind. I don't see this as cornering anyone...in fact it's what they do when backed into a corner.

63 posts of insults, over the top bla bla bla of how great SF.. is when in fact that is not even the topic of this thread. Yes I call that a waste of time and effort.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2018, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,249 posts, read 5,126,587 times
Reputation: 7237
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
Do you think SF mass transit is overrated? Does anyone actually enjoy traveling at ten miles per hour on the Muni Metro?
I think this sums it up great from a guy who has lived in SF for 37 years.

3. SLEAZY. This has nothing to do with anyone’s life choices. It has to with the way one looks at the world. Specifically, San Francisco is (by far) the dirtiest city I have ever seen. In some areas (6th & Mission Parking Garage, for example) the smell of feces, urine, and pot smoke is overpowering. Streets are a carpet of broken glass and trash. Vagrants (“Homeless”) are everywhere and are very aggressive. There is no way you can have a street-level business because bums overrun your business and terrorize your customers. The police do nothing about it. If the police try to do anything about it, the local media and press attack the police and call them fascists. The locals don’t think there is anything wrong with it. The mainstream media considers any . . . “outsider” to be some sort of social hero, and anyone who works a job and pays taxes as a villain. It’s horrible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-31-2018, 03:34 AM
 
Location: America's Expensive Toilet
1,361 posts, read 884,417 times
Reputation: 2976
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
Do you think SF mass transit is overrated? Does anyone actually enjoy traveling at ten miles per hour on the Muni Metro?
Not "overrated" but maybe underwhelming is the right term.

The number of fare evaders is ridiculous. The buses are dirty and loud. I never sit on the seats unless I'm wearing a specific jacket that can be wiped down with Lysol wipes (Sheldon's "Bus pants" equivalent). Many buses get packed like sardines, and with the hygiene of some people in the Bay Area, I really don't like being less than a foot away from them.

Last time I road MUNI, about a week ago, some young dirty homeless guy hopped on - without paying of course. He proceeded to jump to the back seats, left his cup of whatever, hopped over by the door at the next stop and flipped the mirror around for whatever reason (left it like that). Then during the next stop he moved forward, bent over to expose part of his butt to my face (not sure why), brushed past a bunch of other people to jump off one of the front doors and then ran off towards the direction of the back of the bus.

Then there's BART, loud, expensive, dirty as I stated before, and full of bad behavior and panhandling. I still haven't gotten to ride one of the newer cars. I urge you to Google "BART Idiot Hall of Fame" to see a sampling of the Bay Area's finest riders.

There's a reason why Uber and Lyft are doing so well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-31-2018, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,292 posts, read 9,857,255 times
Reputation: 3306
Since everyone seems intent on discussing SF only, the title of this thread should be changed to "Is SF overrated"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-31-2018, 11:32 AM
 
Location: US
19,169 posts, read 18,839,576 times
Reputation: 15062
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
Since everyone seems intent on discussing SF only, the title of this thread should be changed to "Is SF overrated"

IMO, San Francisco is the only one worth talking about because despite its issues, it is still a unique city. The rest of the Bay Area is just overpriced cities/towns that can be found anywhere in the country, usually for a fraction of the price.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-31-2018, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Pac Heights San Francisco
318 posts, read 138,497 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
Do you think SF mass transit is overrated? Does anyone actually enjoy traveling at ten miles per hour on the Muni Metro?

Ha! 10mph? Uphill, the best I can do is 9mph on the cable car. Downhill, it's more like 12-17mph, depending on the gripman. I love every minute of it! One of the best parts of the workday, as a matter of fact... except for maybe the other half of my commute, which is on a ferry under the Bay Bridge with a glass of wine in the evening. I sit outside on the upper deck.

As for Muni Metro, the speed you quote is the average, including stops. By comparison, the NYC subway system runs at an average speed of 17mph.

BART, which is primarily a commuter train (fewer stops and faster top speed) travels at an average speed of 35mph.

When Muni Metro is in the subway portions of its routes, it goes much faster than when it's a streetcar. Some lines with more underground routing are faster than others. I rarely ride it, and never in the streetcar portions, as I live closer in.

The biggest slowdown in the Muni system is buses. That's primarily a traffic congestion problem. There's not an easy solve for that in such a compact city. The one upside, I suppose is that, because SF is so compact, if you live in the city, you don't have to travel long distances from place-to-place. That's why simply walking or biking are such favored options.

In my neighborhood, there's a major Bus Rapid Transit project being built along the Van Ness corridor. This will have dedicated (separated) bus lanes, with boarding at platforms along the run and is supposed to get signal priority. This will speed the transit traffic along this busy connector route, which is desperately needed. So, all the east-west lines running between Lombard and Market will soon have a fast connector line running north-south between them. Not only do lines like the 47 and 49, which are notoriously slow in heavy traffic get a big bump in speed, but the other lines that cross them and link up downtown will benefit too.

Golden Gate Transit also runs in this corridor with limited stops and is a good option between the FiDi and suburbs in Marin County.

With the many options available, the transit service in SF is extensive and reasonably efficient for the needs of the City, mostly due to the compactness of it, rather than any real merits of the system, itself. Commuting options are less efficient.

That all said, I agree that there are many lines of Muni that are either dirty, way overcrowded, or both. I'm fortunate that I rarely need to ride a bus and in my part of town, the buses from residential areas to the Financial District are quite clean and efficient. But, the few lines that run north-south to other parts of of the City, like the 19, 49, etc. can get pretty dicey.

The good news is, cleanliness and modernization seems to be being addressed across most agencies serving SF. I've noticed many new Muni Metro trains and Muni buses. Muni appears to revamp complete lines at a time, rather than spreading new vehicles out over multiple lines, so in some areas the change is slower. I see AC Transit buses in Soma that look new and/or well maintained, but haven't ever ridden one.

New BART trains have been promised for years, too, but so far, I believe only one train is in service. I've ridden it--it is very contemporary and has computerized moving maps and information systems--a big step up for BART. They need to work on bringing these new trains online faster, though.

So, all things considered, as is the case in any major city, where you live makes a big difference. I personally find the transit options to be quite good here and in the case of the ferries and the cable car, excellent. I live here without a car, commute to a different city every day, yet have no issues. I actually prefer walking/biking/public transit to the hassles of parking and the expense of a car.

In any case, I wouldn't say the transit here is "overrated," as it's often (sometimes rightly so) derided.

Last edited by DeanoSF; 12-31-2018 at 01:16 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California > San Francisco - Oakland
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top