Has Anyone Moved From Twin Cities To San Francisco? (Oakland: middle-class, real estate)

[FloatOn]

Hello City-Data people of the Bay Area. I have been eager to move to San Francisco for years now and have been doing extensive research for quite some time. I've visited twice. So I am well aware of a lot of the pros and cons out there and I know that it is really where I'd love to be. I think it would be nice to get some local perspectives on the prospective move (and bonus if anyone else here moved to SF from MSP).

My wife and I are upper 20's professionals NOT in tech. The wife has a Masters in Social Work and my degree is in Urban Studies. We have been in Minneapolis for a number of years and love it here, but have been craving change a very long time. I enjoy things like exploring parks and nature, exploring the city, longboarding, going to neighborhoody bars, hanging out at the beach and love surfing (can't do that here). The political culture in SF is very agreeable to us. I absolutely cannot find a place in the US I would rather live than SF.

I understand that while we are middle-class, anyone who isn't very wealthy is at a disadvantage in The Bay. While visiting SF, I have personally stepped over feces on the sidewalk, hung out with vagrant youth, and read a neighborhood newspaper at a coffee shop in the Mission about gentrification. I also chose to write a 20 page paper in college about the housing crisis in the Bay Area. So I am familiar with the social/housing issues there. However, I know that understanding it and living through it aren't the same thing. How hostile do you feel the housing climate is to middle-class people?

We are not suburbanites and never want to be. SF proper is where I'd really like to end up but would not turn down Oakland, though I'd prefer to start in SF and perhaps migrate to Oakland later on if the COL gets too tough. Upon research it looks like we could expect to find jobs where we would collectively make something in the $130,000-$170,000 range. I've spent countless hours scouring SF craigslist and it seems like we could find a one-bedroom in The City for under $3000/month that isn't a sh**hole but I wonder how competitive those apartments are. I've calculated that on the low end of our potential income, we should be able to get an apartment in that range while having the same money left over per month as we do now (plus a little extra to make up for other higher costs). We don't have kids now but would like to in the near-ish future.

We were originally hoping to start applying for jobs this summer and move this fall. Obviously, COVID is a thing now... How do you think this would affect a cross-country move there? Maybe this will delay a move, but I am still finding job postings in our fields, so it seems like the economy is not completely halted? I wonder if it could actually make it easier to move being that many job interviews, apartment showings will probably be virtual now, but perhaps this is wishful thinking.

I'd love to hear what any locals have to say about this potential move for us. Does it seem doable/realistic? Any advice, things I missed, things to consider, etc. are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Bonezman765]

As much as you would want to live in San Trashisco, why not check out more Oakland? Oakland is developing like crazy, you can still bike around/have the urban feel, and there are plenty of hipster/BernieBro progs in Oakland that you want to be around. All on the cheaper end to save some cash if you ever want to buy something around here.

[RoadLessTraveled2015]

You're young. Go for it. I don't think you'll find something in SF in that range but maybe Oakland or the East Bay would work. You can take the BART into SF.
I can recommend a few apartments right by the BART in the East Bay that are clean and safe... and in your price range. Look at the Avalon website. Avalon Walnut Ridge and Avalon Union City are nice and under $3000 for a 1 bedroom. In Fremont, there are many other nice apartments near the BART. Use Zillow or apartmentguide.com to find them.

[ssmaster]

Originally Posted by FloatOn

Hello City-Data people of the Bay Area. I have been eager to move to San Francisco for years now and have been doing extensive research for quite some time. I've visited twice. So I am well aware of a lot of the pros and cons out there and I know that it is really where I'd love to be. I think it would be nice to get some local perspectives on the prospective move (and bonus if anyone else here moved to SF from MSP).

My wife and I are upper 20's professionals NOT in tech. The wife has a Masters in Social Work and my degree is in Urban Studies. We have been in Minneapolis for a number of years and love it here, but have been craving change a very long time. I enjoy things like exploring parks and nature, exploring the city, longboarding, going to neighborhoody bars, hanging out at the beach and love surfing (can't do that here). The political culture in SF is very agreeable to us. I absolutely cannot find a place in the US I would rather live than SF.

I understand that while we are middle-class, anyone who isn't very wealthy is at a disadvantage in The Bay. While visiting SF, I have personally stepped over feces on the sidewalk, hung out with vagrant youth, and read a neighborhood newspaper at a coffee shop in the Mission about gentrification. I also chose to write a 20 page paper in college about the housing crisis in the Bay Area. So I am familiar with the social/housing issues there. However, I know that understanding it and living through it aren't the same thing. How hostile do you feel the housing climate is to middle-class people?

We are not suburbanites and never want to be. SF proper is where I'd really like to end up but would not turn down Oakland, though I'd prefer to start in SF and perhaps migrate to Oakland later on if the COL gets too tough. Upon research it looks like we could expect to find jobs where we would collectively make something in the $130,000-$170,000 range. I've spent countless hours scouring SF craigslist and it seems like we could find a one-bedroom in The City for under $3000/month that isn't a sh**hole but I wonder how competitive those apartments are. I've calculated that on the low end of our potential income, we should be able to get an apartment in that range while having the same money left over per month as we do now (plus a little extra to make up for other higher costs). We don't have kids now but would like to in the near-ish future.

We were originally hoping to start applying for jobs this summer and move this fall. Obviously, COVID is a thing now... How do you think this would affect a cross-country move there? Maybe this will delay a move, but I am still finding job postings in our fields, so it seems like the economy is not completely halted? I wonder if it could actually make it easier to move being that many job interviews, apartment showings will probably be virtual now, but perhaps this is wishful thinking.

I'd love to hear what any locals have to say about this potential move for us. Does it seem doable/realistic? Any advice, things I missed, things to consider, etc. are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

You will be able to rent a decent place but to raise a child and own a home in a safe Decent walkable area in the Bay Area urban core you will need to add to your expected income of ~$150k at least another $200k/ year for Oakland and at least an additional $350k year for San Francisco.

[Radical347]

For 2 people making 130-170k combined, you’ll be fine in SF proper especially with the mentality of *wanting* to live there and being willing to do what it takes.

If/when kids come into the picture, this will change...and it won’t be as simple as moving to the suburbs. Those are nearly as expensive here.

[likealady]

You're really going to need to break the 200k barrier here to raise a kid, imo. I would wait until this COVID stuff is over first, I'm sure a big economic change will be happening soon.

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by likealady

You're really going to need to break the 200k barrier here to raise a kid, imo. I would wait until this COVID stuff is over first, I'm sure a big economic change will be happening soon.

I'd say well over $200k. You need to factor in daycare ($2k/month), school quality (you'd likely want to send your kids to private schools if you stayed in SF), extra space in your rental, etc. Can you do it conceivably at a cheaper price point? Probably, but I doubt it would give you the type of lifestyle you'd want.

Honestly, my wife and I loved living in the city when we were dinks. However, I couldn't fathom staying there with kids. I did know some partners at my firm who did it, but then again, they could afford to live in Pac Heights and send their kids to private schools. Their lifestyles were insulated from the day to day issues associated with the rest of SF.

[stub303]

SF / Oakland are areas in rapid decline. You're in for a shock coming from MSP. Crime is essentially legal, so be prepared to deal with homeless, home/vehicle break-ins, tent cities outside million dollar condos, public drug use, daily interactions with mentally ill people, disgustingly dirty public transportation, bad traffic, stepping over feces / needles, etc. I have been assaulted in broad daylight multiple times in 'safe neighborhoods' by mentally ill / meth zombies. Also, the job market is being decimated due to Covid, so you're up for a lot of competition for jobs as tens of thousands are recently unemployed.

Why anyone would move to SF/Oakland these days baffles me. It's a sh*t hole and getting worse with the new DA Chesa in charge.

[ssmaster]

Originally Posted by stub303

SF / Oakland are areas in rapid decline. You're in for a shock coming from MSP. Crime is essentially legal, so be prepared to deal with homeless, home/vehicle break-ins, tent cities outside million dollar condos, public drug use, daily interactions with mentally ill people, disgustingly dirty public transportation, bad traffic, stepping over feces / needles, etc. I have been assaulted in broad daylight multiple times in 'safe neighborhoods' by mentally ill / meth zombies. Also, the job market is being decimated due to Covid, so you're up for a lot of competition for jobs as tens of thousands are recently unemployed.

Why anyone would move to SF/Oakland these days baffles me. It's a sh*t hole and getting worse with the new DA Chesa in charge.

The median price for a single family home in San Francisco is $1.6 million. A lot of well educated financially successful people want to own in San Francisco

[stub303]

Originally Posted by ssmaster

The median price for a single family home in San Francisco is $1.6 million. A lot of well educated financially successful people want to own in San Francisco

True; however, expensive real estate does not ignore the problems that plague the city. Lots of old and new IPO money. Unless you're in specific neighborhoods removed from downtown, you will still encounter all of the above mentioned problems on a daily basis.

For the record, in 2019 I was physically assaulted 3 times by drugged out homeless people. 1) On Chestnut St in the Marina, 2) 9:30am inside the Ferry Building, and 3) in an early afternoon incident standing outside the Fairmont in Nob Hill. Also, a buddy of mine who is an extremely fit body builder was jumped by 3 guys with a bat while walking his dog in Pac Heights. Hospitalized to steal a cell phone.

These are generally 'safe' areas and for the record, the police did not even bother coming to the scene to file a report. They just told me to 'be cautious and that SF is dangerous'.