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Old 05-07-2020, 10:38 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
16,127 posts, read 26,930,177 times
Reputation: 9812

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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101 View Post
They're saying double the amount of deaths by June. I agree that most people (80%+) are abiding by the rules. However, the 20% that are the selfish jerks are making it worse for the rest of us.

I agree that we're likely not going to be keeping the country closed. However, if our administration didn't have its head in the sand in the first place (e.g., a national strategy for testing, contact tracing, etc.) we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

What I'm saying is that the economic damage is inevitable at this point, regardless of whether we choose to open up or not, due to the incompetence of our government.
Yeah I don't understand how we still have such little testing going on. It's ridiculous.
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:36 AM
 
1,156 posts, read 728,498 times
Reputation: 1254
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
How many saved lives we can get away with? As many as possible.

NYTimes Interactive May 5th

Covid-19 Deaths by Metro Area(how quickly deaths double)
25,848 New York(5 weeks)
3,397 Detroit(4 weeks)
3,030 Boston(2 weeks)
2,550 Chicago(3 weeks)
2,211 Philadelphia(12 days)
1,313 Los Angeles(3 weeks)
1,000 Washington DC(12 days)
782 Miami(4 weeks)
627 Seattle(2 months)
560 Atlanta(3 weeks)
362 Minneapolis-St Paul(10 days)
280 Inland Empire(3 weeks)
257 Dallas-Ft Worth(3 weeks)
219 Houston(2 weeks)
189 San Francisco-Oakland(5 weeks)
Yeah, SIP is working so well. Bunch of sheeple. Here's from Cult leader Gov Cuomo. Hmmm, interesting he says this and also puts positive Covid people back in nursing homes. Keep drinking that kool aid.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-g...ying-home.html
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Old 05-07-2020, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Piedmont, CA/São Paulo, Brazil
33,667 posts, read 58,051,138 times
Reputation: 16932
Quote:
Originally Posted by TR95 View Post
Yeah, SIP is working so well. Bunch of sheeple. Here's from Cult leader Gov Cuomo. Hmmm, interesting he says this and also puts positive Covid people back in nursing homes. Keep drinking that kool aid.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-g...ying-home.html
Yeah youre definitely not drinking kool aid.

LOL
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Old 05-07-2020, 12:10 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 728,498 times
Reputation: 1254
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Yeah youre definitely not drinking kool aid.

LOL
Not at all, but keep drinking. Over 50% deaths are in NY/NJ/MA. 80% of deaths are 65+ and 89% hospitalizations have an underlying condition. But, hey keep staying inside and following. Funny, you never offer any stats for anything you say. Watch out for me as I run by you outside with no mask. Of course, it will be at 6 ft distance. Great comeback there. Gotta hand it to you.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ekly/index.htm
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Old 05-07-2020, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
3,774 posts, read 6,248,100 times
Reputation: 4857
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeezulMaster View Post
Weigh the potentials. Given the vast majority of cases are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms (which is great!), even if a second wave does hit, it could - COULD - result in a few thousand fatalities.

Contrast that to tens of millions of people now without livelihoods. Suicides are already up. Millions of people driven to desperation. Riots. Food shortages. Starvation. Non-COVID medical deaths from people with truly serious conditions, who can't/won't go to the doctor out of fear.

May sound cold, but practicality is the basis for our actions now. Open the economy back up. Give those millions of people another chance to keep themselves fed, sheltered, and yes, healthy.

Sweden did this, and look at their results - low case count, few fatalities, and no economic shutdown snarling production. Let's all get back to work. We'll be careful. The numbers indicate that it'll be fine.
Yeah, so I'm going to guess you missed that leaked memo from FEMA. 200,000 daily cases by June 1 due to strategic re-openings. That's your government lackey agency.

If we have a peak of 200,000 daily cases in 4-5 weeks, you're looking at a lot more than a few thousand fatalities.

In January when the President was saying, "We've got 15 cases and it's about to be zero...", I told anyone who would listen that there will be 600,000 U.S. deaths and people looked at me like I was a crackpot. In mid-March people asked me how I had such an inclination as modeling showed 100,000 - 200,000 deaths. When that report got released this week, people said, "How the F did you know?"

Simple mathematics. And a certain lack of emotion. I don't need to lie to myself to protect the masses from hysteria, but the government and big business does. And by the way, 600,000 people isn't that many people in a country of approx. 330 million. But for some people, like yourself, you actually have to see bodies before you can conceptualize it. It's not the flu, bud.

And side note: I'm totally fine with people re-opening and later re-shutting down the economy. If this country is into half measures, it's no wonder why we've fallen so hard economically while failing to compete in so many industries. We're a country filled with dim-witted, fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants underachievers.

The best thing we can start to incorporate are social safety nets like UBI and healthcare. And then you can go ahead and open your economy for as long as you can tolerate it.
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Old 05-07-2020, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Fremont, CA
28 posts, read 17,345 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by llowllevellowll View Post
Yeah, so I'm going to guess you missed that leaked memo from FEMA. 200,000 daily cases by June 1 due to strategic re-openings. That's your government lackey agency.

If we have a peak of 200,000 daily cases in 4-5 weeks, you're looking at a lot more than a few thousand fatalities.

In January when the President was saying, "We've got 15 cases and it's about to be zero...", I told anyone who would listen that there will be 600,000 U.S. deaths and people looked at me like I was a crackpot. In mid-March people asked me how I had such an inclination as modeling showed 100,000 - 200,000 deaths. When that report got released this week, people said, "How the F did you know?"

Simple mathematics. And a certain lack of emotion. I don't need to lie to myself to protect the masses from hysteria, but the government and big business does. And by the way, 600,000 people isn't that many people in a country of approx. 330 million. But for some people, like yourself, you actually have to see bodies before you can conceptualize it. It's not the flu, bud.

And side note: I'm totally fine with people re-opening and later re-shutting down the economy. If this country is into half measures, it's no wonder why we've fallen so hard economically while failing to compete in so many industries. We're a country filled with dim-witted, fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants underachievers.

The best thing we can start to incorporate are social safety nets like UBI and healthcare. And then you can go ahead and open your economy for as long as you can tolerate it.

Okay, I'm aware this won't change anyone's mind and you'll just dig your heels in more, but I'll give a response.

So, you want to hold an entire country hostage to get your welfare programs. Wow. Those aren't "safety nets." They're tax yokes. I've never minded paying a reasonable tax rate, but I'm sure as hell not dropping half my income so someone else can sit on their butt at home all year round. Nor will I condemn my family to paying for the rest of their lives as such.

(And yes, I'm fully aware that our healthcare system has serious issues. It needs major reforms. Until this, I thought it had begun seeing some of them. That's another topic.)

Yes, it IS a flu. A faster-spreading type thereof, with a slightly higher mortality rate. Does that suck? Yep, sure does. Let's assume the full 600,000 deaths you gave. Out of 330 million people, that's 0.018% of the population.

More people die of heart disease every year (647,457, from CDC). Does THAT suck? Yep, sure does. But we don't shut the entire country down for it. Nor should we.

How many are out of work right now? 30 million? That's just under 10% of the population. It keeps rising. They're still alive, yes, but we're just asking for societal breakdown and tremendous violence.

I am a practical man, yes. Not a heartless one though. I would rather we have 600,000 dead from COVID-19 than millions dead from starvation & wars. We can avoid that - and I believe avoid both - by reopening and moving forward.
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
5,250 posts, read 6,787,625 times
Reputation: 4863
Quote:
Yes, it IS a flu. A faster-spreading type thereof, with a slightly higher mortality rate. Does that suck? Yep, sure does. Let's assume the full 600,000 deaths you gave. Out of 330 million people, that's 0.018% of the population.
You're absolutely incorrect. It is NOT a strain of influenza (the common flu); it's a novel virus that humans hadn't ever been exposed to before, and we don't have a vaccine for it yet like we do for the flu. Just because something has "flu like symptoms" doesn't make it a flu. Also, your numbers are way off. You can 'believe' whatever you want, but viruses don't care about your opinions and beliefs, and the only real way to protect ourselves is to develop a vaccine, which may take YEARS.
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
3,774 posts, read 6,248,100 times
Reputation: 4857
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeezulMaster View Post
I am a practical man, yes. Not a heartless one though. I would rather we have 600,000 dead from COVID-19 than millions dead from starvation & wars. We can avoid that - and I believe avoid both - by reopening and moving forward.
You actually do seem like someone that can be reasoned with. But I think you're getting your information from some absurd sources because your talking points -- I know where those came from and who paid to get you to think that way.

- I don't want to pay for people to sit on their ass either, but guess what, you and I just helped give the ultra wealthy a gigantic bonus. I hate to break it to you but we just helped people who didn't need it to continue sitting on their asses. We probably just ensured a whole legacy full of their children and their children's children who can now sit on their asses. Ever think about it that way? At least with UBI, UBI isn't enough to cover everyone's necessities, and it will spark a lot more economic stimulus than handing extra money to people who do not need it. Further, things like UBI and healthcare come at the expense of other, just as expensive, but not nearly as beneficial items in our budget. What we need to do is to start electing people who aren't bought and sold already because where our tax dollars go now is a heaping pile of bleep. We can agree on that.

- With or without COVID-19, you'll have millions dying from starvation and wars because we already have that and we already do that.

- I lost my job due to the shutdown and have since relocated to a cheaper locale. If anyone understands the sacrifices that causes people, I get it completely. But the very people telling you that we need to open up to protect people from committing suicide and starving -- they're giving you an emotional impetus to re-start the economy so THEY can make money off of the backs of people who will die. Don't you think it's laughable that they're convincing working class people that they'll BE HAPPIER IN LIFE if they go back to the office to create wealth for others? Come on, this can't be that hard for people to see what's happening here.

- Again, this isn't the flu.

- I don't hope for continued shutdown because I want violence, but if there's one good thing that can happen from all of this, it's that the working classes can now see exactly who makes money for who in the economy. And now is a great time to ask for a little bit more fairness in exchange for that fact. And if that means there's social unrest, then that's what it means. And I hope you'll support those people who will be doing it for themselves, their neighbors, but also for their children. And for you.
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Fremont, CA
28 posts, read 17,345 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04kL4nD View Post
You're absolutely incorrect. It is NOT a strain of influenza (the common flu); it's a novel virus that humans hadn't ever been exposed to before, and we don't have a vaccine for it yet like we do for the flu. Just because something has "flu like symptoms" doesn't make it a flu. Also, your numbers are way off. You can 'believe' whatever you want, but viruses don't care about your opinions and beliefs, and the only real way to protect ourselves is to develop a vaccine, which may take YEARS.
Never heard of SARS? We have been exposed to a similar virus before. SARS came up in 2003. It spread fast, killed thousands...and burned out in 2004. To my knowledge it has never resurfaced.

The world didn't shut down for that one.

We still don't have a vaccine for SARS. It could, in theory, flare up tomorrow. I don't think it will though.

I get that this is scary to think of. But it's not entirely uncharted waters. I'm sure we will indeed achieve a vaccine. Perhaps even this year - wouldn't that be a triumph for modern medicine!

At the same time, hobbling an entire economy and keeping millions out of work will have far graver consequences.
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Old 05-07-2020, 05:25 PM
 
1,584 posts, read 2,837,370 times
Reputation: 1304
It the high level of educational attainment in the Bay Area
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