SF/Bay Area Crime Thread (housing, place, burglaries)

[sav858]

Originally Posted by MKTwet

It's pretty obvious liberal cities all have the most crime as it favors a lenient progressive way of dealing with crime.

Conversely you look at countries with the lowest crimes, they have the harshest criminal justice system. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

These are the 20 safest and most crime-free countries

That's definitely not true, many of the safest countries don't even have the death penalty. Portugal decriminalized using all drugs. Oh yeah Finland, the #1 safest country on that list, looks really "harsh" lol.

Not saying "progressive policies" or whatever criminal justice model many of those countries use would work here but just pointing out that correlation you claimed doesn't actually exist.

[Suburban_Guy]

Interrupted auto burglary leads to fatal shooting near Lake Merritt

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy

Interrupted auto burglary leads to fatal shooting near Lake Merritt

Sad, seems to be a lot of innocent people getting murdered lately.

[Woodshampoo]

Originally Posted by sav858

These are the 20 safest and most crime-free countries

That's definitely not true, many of the safest countries don't even have the death penalty. Portugal decriminalized using all drugs. Oh yeah Finland, the #1 safest country on that list, looks really "harsh" lol.

Not saying "progressive policies" or whatever criminal justice model many of those countries use would work here but just pointing out that correlation you claimed doesn't actually exist.

Many of these nations have a significant amount more police per capita than the US

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by MKTwet

It's pretty obvious liberal cities all have the most crime as it favors a lenient progressive way of dealing with crime.

Conversely you look at countries with the lowest crimes, they have the harshest criminal justice system. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

That is incorrect. I know that Republicans try to blame crime on Democratic Mayors but that's kind of silly because the state government passes criminal justice laws, not the mayor; and when you look at 'red states' they fare far worse in overall crime:

According to 2019 FBI data, seven out of ten states with the highest per-capita rates of violent crime voted Republican in the 2020 election. In contrast, seven out of ten states with the lowest rates voted Democrat. However, the District of Columbia had the highest rate despite voting blue. https://repustar.com/fact-briefs/do-...an-blue-states

CALIFORNIA’S REPUBLICAN COUNTIES HAVE WORSE CRIME TRENDS AND HIGHER VIOLENT
CRIME RATES THAN DEMOCRATIC COUNTIES

You can't have it both ways, you can't whine about 'democrat laws' like prop 47 and then blame crime on the mayor because they don't pass state laws. And if you want to talk about tough on crime then you need to explain why red states have such a high crime rate, they arrest more people and keep them in prison longer than blue states, so why isn't all that toughness working to lower the crime rate?

[Woodshampoo]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

That is incorrect. I know that Republicans try to blame crime on Democratic Mayors but that's kind of silly because the state government passes criminal justice laws, not the mayor; and when you look at 'red states' they fare far worse in overall crime:



CALIFORNIA’S REPUBLICAN COUNTIES HAVE WORSE CRIME TRENDS AND HIGHER VIOLENT
CRIME RATES THAN DEMOCRATIC COUNTIES

You can't have it both ways, you can't whine about 'democrat laws' like prop 47 and then blame crime on the mayor because they don't pass state laws. And if you want to talk about tough on crime then you need to explain why red states have such a high crime rate, they arrest more people and keep them in prison longer than blue states, so why isn't all that toughness working to lower the crime rate?

True, state laws are written by the states and not the cities, but you are suggesting city mayors and their council has no influence on crime rates? 17 of the top 20 cities with the highest crime rates are democrat run cities. The top three most violent cities in California are all run by democrats.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Woodshampoo

True, state laws are written by the states and not the cities, but you are suggesting city mayors and their council has no influence on crime rates? 17 of the top 20 cities with the highest crime rates are democrat run cities. The top three most violent cities in California are all run by democrats.

Yes I am suggesting exactly that! I know that the backstory is always a claim about defunding police but very few cities did that in any significant way and in most cases the crime rate wasn't impacted by it. Look at Fresno California, the mayor and sheriff are Republicans, hard core 'tough on crime' conservatives the result , Fresno is one of four California cities to make the list of 50 most dangerous cities in the US.

Fresno is one of four California metro areas to rank among the 50 most dangerous cities in the United States. Nearly 6,000 violent crimes were reported in Fresno in 2020, or 597 for every 100,000 people. Rates of violence are often higher in places with limited economic opportunity — and in Fresno, 20.6% of the population live below the poverty line and average unemployment in 2020 was 11.3%. This compares to the national 12.3% poverty rate and 8.1% jobless rate that year. Local police point to gang activity as a driver of violence in the area. https://247wallst.com/special-report...litan-areas/2/

The two factors that are present in almost every urban area with a high crime rate are poverty and high unemployment. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. Police play a valuable role but for the most part they can't prevent crime, they function very much like firefighters, they respond after the event occurred and clean up the mess.

[Woodshampoo]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Yes I am suggesting exactly that! I know that the backstory is always a claim about defunding police but very few cities did that in any significant way and in most cases the crime rate wasn't impacted by it. Look at Fresno California, the mayor and sheriff are Republicans, hard core 'tough on crime' conservatives the result , Fresno is one of four California cities to make the list of 50 most dangerous cities in the US.



The two factors that are present in almost every urban area with a high crime rate are poverty and high unemployment. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. Police play a valuable role but for the most part they can't prevent crime, they function very much like firefighters, they respond after the event occurred and clean up the mess.

I didn’t bring up defunding the police, but since you brought it up, does defunding the police help in reducing crime?

True, poverty and unemployment is present in high crime areas, but Explain NYC then under Mayor Rudy Giuliani that police cannot prevent crime? NYPD under Mayor Giuliani were quite proactive with their plain clothes street crime and anti-crime units along with uniform officers targeting petty infractions like open containers and so on. This was called the broken windows theory style of policing and crime significantly dropped.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Woodshampoo

I didn’t bring up defunding the police, but since you brought it up, does defunding the police help in reducing crime?

True, poverty and unemployment is present in high crime areas, but Explain NYC then under Mayor Rudy Giuliani that police cannot prevent crime? NYPD under Mayor Giuliani were quite proactive with their plain clothes street crime and anti-crime units along with uniform officers targeting petty infractions like open containers and so on. This was called the broken windows theory style of policing.

Crime was going down all over the US when Rudy was playing the "tough mayor". The impact of all of his silliness was that a lot of people were arrested for little or no reason, in some cases causing them to lose their jobs and housing. Don't believe me, read this:

Of course, some people attribute some of the rising economy in the city to the drop in the crime rate. But what did Rudy Giuliani do to produce the drop in the crime rate? The crime rate has declined in cities throughout the country. In Seattle, for example, where the murder rate was declining far faster than it was in New York, Lenny Levitt of Newsday called the police commissioner and asked him what was causing the lowering crime rate in his town. And the police commissioner said, "we have no idea" He did not say, "we did it." In the final days of the administration of David Dinkins, we had 36 consecutive months of decline in the crime statistics across the board, in the seven index crimes. Murder went down 14 percent. Those last 36 months under Dinkins reversed trends that were a decade old. Who should get the credit, the mayor who reversed the trend or the mayor who deepened the trend?
https://www.gothamgazette.com/commen....barrett.shtml

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Woodshampoo

Many of these nations have a significant amount more police per capita than the US

Out of the 16 countries that had data half had more. So I still wouldn't say there is a correlation there either.


US: 239

Finland: 132
Singapore: 170
Iceland: 196
Oman: N/A
Switzerland: 211
New Zealand: 187
Luxembourg: 307
Hong Kong: 477
UAE: N/A
Japan: 235
Norway: 189
Portugal: 446
Austria: 335
Estonia: 336
Qatar: N/A
Australia: 219
Netherlands: 295
Spain: 534
Bahrain: N/A
Canada: 184

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...olice_officers