Upper Laurel (Oakland, Montclair, Millbrae: cul-de-sac, low income, real estate)

[sonarrat]

With the well-publicized housing downturn now in full swing, I've been looking for opportunities to sneak into the Bay Area's forbidding housing market with excellent credit, but low income. I have no interest in getting shot at just by walking out to the street to catch a transbay bus, but I'm not looking for the kind of sheltered environment I grew up in, either. I'd like to rub shoulders with people other than white bread folk, and I can deal with a place that has an active night life.

So with that in mind, I've been looking at a small house in my price range in the Upper Laurel district in Oakland (close to Macarthur between 35th & High). Some considerations I've had..

- The commute to my day job. It's about a minute to 580, and a straight shot to the bridge from there. I'm well aware of the multitude of problems associated with this commute.. but I'll deal. I could also park at the Fruitvale BART station and take the train around the bay to Millbrae if I really got sick of it.

- I don't and won't have kids, but as a piano teacher, I am sensitive to the quality of schools I will be supporting as it does affect me directly if families avoid the area. Laurel Elementary, Bret Harte Middle, and Skyline High - numerically, they seem to be underperformers, but at the same time, better than any of the other flatland schools. Montclair, Rockridge and Orinda's schools wipe the floor with them though.

- Proximity to a music studio is important to me for a variety of reasons. Acme Music is right around the corner.

- It seems safe. I drove through the neighborhood on a Sunday night, and there were some people walking the streets, but they were just regular people hanging around, not bangers out to paint the town red. With the economic makeup in the area, I anticipate it won't be completely crime-free, but it shouldn't be any worse than the 'hoods I was looking at that were running $400-500K on the other side of the water.

All in all, it seems to me like a very viable option, as a first-time buyer on a budget. But it still makes me wonder because as well as I understand the peninsula, I really don't know Oakland that well. Anyone got any advice? Concerns? Or, on the flip side, links to local culture that would whet my appetite?

[sonarrat]

Sorry to bump but someone bumped a squintillion old and dead threads and this one landed in the middle of it..

[Ultrarunner]

I worked and grew up around Laurel and it's always been a stable area...

I'm a car person and my biggest concern would be to find a place with a usable garage or off-street parking... Unfortunately, petty vandalism to cars does happen.

Laurel has a busy shopping district... not on par with Montclair which is only 5 minutes away, but, none the less is a place with all the various business needed to make up a community.

I sold a car years ago to the owner of Acme Music and a good friend of mine is the music teacher at Bret Harte. He has some talented students and is always on the look out for donated band instruments...

I wouldn't worry about getting shot catching the Transbay bus... everyone knows that the majority of urban crime happens night and weekends... not at 6 am in the morning

The homes closer to Mac Arthur are older... many dating from the 20 and 30's. You'll find the newer homes up a little higher in elevation and some have bay views...

As with any older home... you will need a structural pest control report (Termite Report) and a home inspection should address things like foundation condition, electrical service and roof.

I own/manage several homes in the area and I strongly advise taking time to meet your potential neighbors... Neighbors, especially long term home owners are a wealth of information...

Welcome to the neighborhood...

[sonarrat]

Thanks a bunch on many fronts.. it is a block from Macarthur so it is definitely older, a 1916 house in fact. The price reflects that. It does have usable off-street parking, at the expense of the front yard - I agree with your sentiment and I saw a number of places in West Oakland with street parking only. That would spook me more than almost anything else!

The owners of the house won't be much help I think, they bought in 2005 and are now short-selling it at roughly the price it last sold at in 2001. So it's doubtful they had much interest in the surroundings..

[Ultrarunner]

Between 2003 and 2007... homes here, like everywhere else, were selling with multiple offers... 1050 square feet 1920's bungalows starting in the 500k plus range... Many of these buyers are trying to hang on with their only other option being to walk away... it is really sad to see so many first time home buyers in this situation. It's been devastating to many...

Oakland has several lines of demarcation... Real Estate above the freeway, doesn't really matter which freeway, always goes for more than below the freeway and the higher the elevation... the more it costs...

Over the years, the single biggest reason that I've lost great neighbors other than retirement/downsizing is due to the mediocre performance of the public schools... which doesn't really factor if you don't have school age children.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by sonarrat

With the well-publicized housing downturn now in full swing, I've been looking for opportunities to sneak into the Bay Area's forbidding housing market with excellent credit, but low income. I have no interest in getting shot at just by walking out to the street to catch a transbay bus, but I'm not looking for the kind of sheltered environment I grew up in, either. I'd like to rub shoulders with people other than white bread folk, and I can deal with a place that has an active night life.

So with that in mind, I've been looking at a small house in my price range in the Upper Laurel district in Oakland (close to Macarthur between 35th & High). Some considerations I've had..

- The commute to my day job. It's about a minute to 580, and a straight shot to the bridge from there. I'm well aware of the multitude of problems associated with this commute.. but I'll deal. I could also park at the Fruitvale BART station and take the train around the bay to Millbrae if I really got sick of it.

- I don't and won't have kids, but as a piano teacher, I am sensitive to the quality of schools I will be supporting as it does affect me directly if families avoid the area. Laurel Elementary, Bret Harte Middle, and Skyline High - numerically, they seem to be underperformers, but at the same time, better than any of the other flatland schools. Montclair, Rockridge and Orinda's schools wipe the floor with them though.

- Proximity to a music studio is important to me for a variety of reasons. Acme Music is right around the corner.

- It seems safe. I drove through the neighborhood on a Sunday night, and there were some people walking the streets, but they were just regular people hanging around, not bangers out to paint the town red. With the economic makeup in the area, I anticipate it won't be completely crime-free, but it shouldn't be any worse than the 'hoods I was looking at that were running $400-500K on the other side of the water.

All in all, it seems to me like a very viable option, as a first-time buyer on a budget. But it still makes me wonder because as well as I understand the peninsula, I really don't know Oakland that well. Anyone got any advice? Concerns? Or, on the flip side, links to local culture that would whet my appetite?

When we first moved to CA, we rented a place at 3300 38th Ave (below 580 a wee bit) -- and we walked up to MacArthur for fish sandwiches and a great little taqueria. We never felt like we were in any sort of danger -- and we were like babies, farm fresh out of Pennsylvania!

Our vet is at Oakland Vet Hospital and is very involved in the area... and even though there are closer vets, we adore Dr Dorsey, and her practice is growing by leaps and bounds.

With nine cats, we're also there all the time. I don't feel threatened there at all. In fact -- at the corner of Redwood Rd and Macarthur is a great veggie market -- Farmer Joes. A bit farther down the MacArthur is the Food Mill -- which is a great natural food store with some wild bulk flours and grains!

Now -- I do have to say I wasn't crazy about the local library branch at Fruitvale (across from Safeway) -- I'm not crazy about the Oakland Library system, but they do the best they can with the little they have.

So we lived in the area for three years -- first on 38th and then on Maple -- and that place was SO bad I decided we had to buy a house. That was our first time ever in a real apartment building -- and I HATED it. But that was also 20 years ago -- and it was rougher back then.

It's a hard decision to buy or not nowadays -- but good luck!

[sonarrat]

Thanks! My decision to buy is pretty much settled. I had a laundry list in my mind of things I wanted in my home, and it looks like I've finally found a way to compromise and get everything I need at a price tag that won't make my heart stop. It's my goal now to close by my 25th birthday, which is in the middle of June..

[gizmo980]

Good luck!! It's very exciting to buy your first home, and I hope to join you in that eventually...

[sonarrat]

The first place I was considering was 4016 Masterson.. turned out to be a no-go. Major noise pollution from the Laurel Lounge on Macarthur & 38th. They were blasting music so loud I could hear it an entire block away. Maybe it was a one-time thing. But I don't think I want to find out the hard way.

I've started looking around. Looked at a much bigger, much dirtier property lower in the Fruitvale district, east of Coolidge a few blocks north of Foothill. It's really interesting - it felt like it was in the Oakland hills, even though it was the middle of the flats. The birds twittering around Peralta Creek certainly give it a homey atmosphere. But it needs an extraordinary amount of work, and my partner thinks there might have been drug dealers at the duplex on the end of the cul-de-sac, because a lot of cars came and went while we were sniffing around. The Oakland crime map was clean though, so it might have been a misperception.

[Ultrarunner]

Some of the neighborhoods are very distinct that Oakland published a neighborhood guide listing them...

Laurel, Dimond, Fruitvale, Bartlett, Minna, Upper High Street, Leona, Park Lakeshore, Mills, Maxwell Park, Redwood Heights... well you get the idea...

Good Luck on your search... and you are doing the right thing by spending some time picking up the neighborhood vibes...