Sit back, and remember when. (San Francisco, Monterey: middle-class, hotel, high school)

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by tikkasf

Some of us may better remember this tune....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I0vkKy504U

I’m a Bay Area native, and I’m younger than the young people in the ‘San Francisco’ video (I got my driver’s license, graduated from high school, etc. in the 70s), but I remember hearing ‘I Left My Heart in San Francisco’ more often than ‘San Francisco’ (I like both) while I was growing up.

[SeaOfGrass]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

OK, I assume you didn't mean me, there, because earlier you said you realized I wasn't a denialist. (I'm paraphrasing) But just to be clear, my point was, that I (and others) can still enjoy the city. I've always loved San Francisco. There's still fun to be had, beautiful views of the Bay and ocean to take in, restaurants to enjoy, streets to stroll along and with unique shops to explore, Golden Gate Park to walk or skate or bike through, the Conservatory of flowers. Great Russian food in a bakery/cafe near the park.

Sorry, I'm getting carried away. I can't help it. I'll stop now. Anyway, it's too bad you never made it to the city back when you wanted to, before the decline of downtown, etc.

You're right, I wasn't referring to you there. I read these particular forums (California/Los Angeles, etc.) more than I post here. It just seems that many posters who are residents here try to deny the fact that people and companies are leaving for greener pastures.

I see your point. I'm just overall very cranky and fed up with leaders who, as I say, take our money and just let the cities go down the toilet.

I'll let it drop now, too.

[ThaEnd]

I lived in Bay Area for 31 years. I loved it , then decay set in. I left.

In hindsight I left Arizona for Bay area, it was a wise move. Now I live in the Treasure Valley which is basically Bay Area North. We have massive growth, im watching/participating in it.

[pathrunner]

Originally Posted by Chowhound

It's a shame what is being allowed to happen to so many places in this state. Poor leadership, bad polices, and this is what you get.

Lawlessness, open air drug use, homeless encampments are EVERYWHERE in many parts of the cities. I was just last week pulling out of my neighborhood into a major Blvd leaving for work in the morning and saw two homeless people just sleeping on the sidewalk, had their carts of stuff sitting by them and I'm just doing this as I drive by.

I live in a decent part of town and this stuff is just spreading. It's a shame that we've allowed this to get this far along.

But how are "we" supposed to fix it after "allowing" it to get this far along? We had and have no real say in how these politicians spend their money and refuse to have political will to do the right thing. Elitists gotta elite. Ya think Pacific Heights or St. Francis Wood has feces, needles, trash and vagrants? Hell no. Anyway, I'll stop here. I lived in San Francisco for many years - while it was still good - and it makes my blood boil that this has happened and will continue to happen. If these were medieval times a mob would grab these jerks, put them in pillories and throw tomatoes at them. That's how strongly I feel about it.

It's not about left or right, conservative or liberal. It's deep pockets and elitism. The money is there. The political will is not. NEITHER side.

PS I do like those songs, but for me it's all the live jazz, folk, and international music that make me shed a tear for the good old days I lived in San Francisco.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by pathrunner

But how are "we" supposed to fix it after "allowing" it to get this far along? We had and have no real say in how these politicians spend their money and refuse to have political will to do the right thing. Elitists gotta elite. Ya think Pacific Heights or St. Francis Wood has feces, needles, trash and vagrants? Hell no. Anyway, I'll stop here. I lived in San Francisco for many years - while it was still good - and it makes my blood boil that this has happened and will continue to happen. If these were medieval times a mob would grab these jerks, put them in pillories and throw tomatoes at them. That's how strongly I feel about it.

It's not about left or right, conservative or liberal. It's deep pockets and elitism. The money is there. The political will is not. NEITHER side.

PS I do like those songs, but for me it's all the live jazz, folk, and international music that make me shed a tear for the good old days I lived in San Francisco.

Here’s the thing: the problem [with the homelessness] isn’t how much money there is [or isn’t] to fix it. The problem is: homelessness is a collateral effect of highly successful consumer capitalist free-market economies.

As long as our culture is about money and materialism above all, the rate at which new persons become homeless will always run high or accelerating … approximately 75% of all homeless are re-housed within a year … leaving only the chronic 25% languishing in the streets … but a constant stream of newly homeless are pushed into the streets as fast or faster than aid can help them move past their predicaments.

So, you / we can blame the politicians till we’re blue in the face … but things won’t change as long as money is god.

[pathrunner]

Yes, when I said elitism, I meant money. And not just the money it would take to clean up the streets, keep them clean, and provide services to those who need it. Will never happen.

And big money controls the politicians, so it's really both. Take away big money that controls the politicians and something might get done. But then there's human nature. A large sector always needs to feel "better than" others who are not very fortunate.

Anyway, you know all this already.

What concerns me is the ever-growing numbers of people pushed into homelessness with very few to no prospects for a solution.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Here’s the thing: the problem [with the homelessness] isn’t how much money there is [or isn’t] to fix it. The problem is: homelessness is a collateral effect of highly successful consumer capitalist free-market economies.

As long as our culture is about money and materialism above all, the rate at which new persons become homeless will always run high or accelerating … approximately 75% of all homeless are re-housed within a year … leaving only the chronic 25% languishing in the streets … but a constant stream of newly homeless are pushed into the streets as fast or faster than aid can help them move past their predicaments.

So, you / we can blame the politicians till we’re blue in the face … but things won’t change as long as money is god.

Then how come is wasn't this widespread and in such great numbers before? A tremendously exacerbating factor is that the "capitalist free-market" RE economy has become too free. You now have Wall Street investment venues gobbling up real estate nation-wide, in some cases price-fixing a "market rate' for rents that they invent, raising rents annually whether the actual market justifies it or not, which ends up pushing people out, with few, if any, alternatives.

REIT's didn't exist before. And back when they were invented, for the first few decades they hadn't invaded the residential RE market. Now they're all over the place: in apartment complexes, SFH developments they themselves capitalize, the foreclosure market, even mobile home parks. Soon, there will be noplace for the average worker or working couple to turn for housing, that isn't REIT-owned. They're gaining a strangle-hold on residential housing.

Where, pray tell, are 75% of the homeless getting re-housed within a year? 75%, are you saying, are just down on their luck, got laid off, scrambled for a new job and were homeless until they got rehired? 75% is a pretty big number. Sounds optimistic to me.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Then how come is wasn't this widespread and in such great numbers before? A tremendously exacerbating factor is that the "capitalist free-market" RE economy has become too free. You now have Wall Street investment venues gobbling up real estate nation-wide, in some cases price-fixing a "market rate' for rents that they invent, raising rents annually whether the actual market justifies it or not, which ends up pushing people out, with few, if any, alternatives.

REIT's didn't exist before. And back when they were invented, for the first few decades they hadn't invaded the residential RE market. Now they're all over the place: in apartment complexes, SFH developments they themselves capitalize, the foreclosure market, even mobile home parks. Soon, there will be noplace for the average worker or working couple to turn for housing, that isn't REIT-owned. They're gaining a strangle-hold on residential housing.

Where, pray tell, are 75% of the homeless getting re-housed within a year? 75%, are you saying, are just down on their luck, got laid off, scrambled for a new job and were homeless until they got rehired? 75% is a pretty big number. Sounds optimistic to me.

How come? …. Heh, you just largely answered your opening question with what you followed with: “ … the "capitalist free-market" RE economy has become too free … . Population growth and mobility, including very much internationally, has hit the US like a gut-punch. Growth has naturally intensified in the most desirable regions. New wealth all around is gobbling up every square inch of dirt worth laying claim to.

Yes, approximately 75% of people experiencing homelessness at any given point in time - are not chronics. They find ways, often with assistance either public or family, friends, employers, to get back in some form of housing. The figure is from research studies I have quoted numerous times in the past. Not feeling motivated to look up again but you probably can.

[Tulemutt]

This is dated but still close:
“ The average length of stay in emergency shelter was 69 days for single men, 51 days for single women, and 70 days for families. For those staying in transitional housing, the average stay for single men was 175 days, 196 days for single women, and 223 days for families.
https://www.nationalhomeless.org/fac.../How_Many.html

Here’s one more:
“ … Let’s look at one year in an example community – let’s say there were 5 people experiencing homelessness in this community in this year. 4 of them were in and out of an emergency shelter within a few months over the course of the year. The fifth person – let’s call him Alfred – had been in shelter for the last two years. You’ll see that the average is very high – 197 days – and that the one person experiencing such an extreme length of homelessness really affects the average.
A few of these folks exit the system on their own. Some of them are assisted into permanent housing with subsidies. And, because of the community’s focus on housing chronically homeless people, Alfred was placed into permanent supportive housing during the year ...
https://www.hudexchange.info/sites/o...Transcript.pdf

[Chowhound]

Originally Posted by pathrunner

But how are "we" supposed to fix it after "allowing" it to get this far along? We had and have no real say in how these politicians spend their money and refuse to have political will to do the right thing. Elitists gotta elite. Ya think Pacific Heights or St. Francis Wood has feces, needles, trash and vagrants? Hell no. Anyway, I'll stop here. I lived in San Francisco for many years - while it was still good - and it makes my blood boil that this has happened and will continue to happen. If these were medieval times a mob would grab these jerks, put them in pillories and throw tomatoes at them. That's how strongly I feel about it.

It's not about left or right, conservative or liberal. It's deep pockets and elitism. The money is there. The political will is not. NEITHER side.

PS I do like those songs, but for me it's all the live jazz, folk, and international music that make me shed a tear for the good old days I lived in San Francisco.

Tomatoes? LOL

I'd give them the Mussolini treatment if I could.