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Old 11-06-2023, 09:12 AM
 
Location: az
13,684 posts, read 7,973,244 times
Reputation: 9380

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I was in SF with my wife this year to visit friends who live in the Bay Area. (I grew up in SF.)

We stayed in the Marina and on a Sunday walked to the Presidio to visit the Walt Disney Museum. The grassy area in front of the museum was very clean and packed with young families. After visiting the museum, we walked to Chestnut Street. The cafes and restaurants were also packed with a younger crowd.

Now, walk to Van Ness, take a bus to Market Street and you're in another world. Start walking downtown and the area only get worse.

But if you've got serious bucks - the Marina has perfect weather and the water – right there.
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Old 11-06-2023, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
11,402 posts, read 5,960,793 times
Reputation: 22356
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Sure but it’s more about what the vast majority of personally responsible people allow and vote for that’s the issue.
A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

If the least honest 10% of your population have a high level of morals and integrity, your entire city is going to be safe.

If the least honest 10% of your population is brazen thieves, murderers, drug pushers, prostitutes, car jackers, con men, and cray homeless people -- then it doesn't matter how honest or "responsible" the other 90% are. You are going to have an unsafe city.

It is not about the ratio, it is about the honesty, integrity, and cultural attributes of the bottom tier.

San Francisco has fallen off a cliff because the voters installed woke politicians who have enabled the bottom tier to prey on businesses and individuals with impunity.

I saw it all happening in real time when I finally moved out of SF in 2010. I saw snippepts on visits over the next 10 years. I have not been to SF since Covid. I can't even begin to imagine how bad it is today. Car break ins, car-jacking, shoplifting, open air drug selling and use.

It is apparently much worse today than when I left in 2010. I never even saw a homeless tent until the first I saw was on Folsom in 2002. Before that, the only tents I ever saw were when Occupy Wall Street camped out off Market Street. That was the precedent.

SF seems lost. Even the woke politicians are starting to understand the error of their ways but it is dubious if they can put the genii back in the bottle before SF circles the drain. It is a race and the odds are not favorable.
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Old 11-06-2023, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
11,402 posts, read 5,960,793 times
Reputation: 22356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Apple View Post
I don't think "the nation" has ever seen San Francisco as its dreams. For a brief period in the Sixties some young people saw it as the Emerald City in Oz, maybe. In the '70s it had some attraction for me but in the '80s I was so glad I hadn't listened to its siren song (don't even remember now what exactly the siren song was way back then).
I doubt any other US city has ever envied San Francisco, let alone NYC. And for that matter, NYC is not the envy of other cities it sometimes seems to think it is.
Too many earthquakes in San Francisco.
Too much human excrement on the sidewalks.
I feel sorry for San Francisco these days. I hope it can improve itself.
I was born in San Francisco in the 1950s. It was always a zany city but it was a wonderful place to live all the way up to the 1980s. Then the Leftist Extremists completely took it over in the 1990s. Willie Brown was very corrupt, but he wasn't "woke". The crazies on the city council were already dragging the City to the extreme Left under Brown.

The voters got what they voted for.

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
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Old 11-06-2023, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,345 posts, read 8,557,056 times
Reputation: 16674
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
this is from data.census.gov---and for 1-year estimates, only cities with 65,000+ population is included, which means most wealthy suburbs are excluded, not just those in your county.

I do however, have a 2022 county list of both the median hh income and the median 2-earner family income, notice the huge difference?

County-------------------Median Income, 2022--------
--------------------------Household----2-Earner Families:
$100,000+
Loudoun, VA------------$167,531----$207,624
Santa Clara, CA--------$150,839-----$232,340
San Mateo, CA---------$145,388-----$234,959
Fairfax, VA---------------$145,164----$210,715
Hunterdon, NJ----------$142,518----$179,826
Douglas, CO------------$140,003-----$172,585
Stafford, VA-------------$138,378----$161,087
Nassau, NY--------------$136,984----$178,908
San Francisco, CA------$136,692-----$239,919
Marin, CA-----------------$136,214----$244,906
Somerset, NJ------------$135,577----$186,397
Howard, MD-------------$133,438----$199,861
Arlington, VA------------$132,380----$229,546
Morris, NJ-----------------$131,795----$185,501
Fauquier, VA--------------$130,261---$161,060
Forsyth, GA---------------$129,410----$172,920
Williamson, TN-----------$129,275----$164,275
Rockwall, TX--------------$123,767----$152,290
Western CT, CT-----------$122,234----$194,531
Alameda, CA------------$122,159-----$205,087
Prince William, VA-------$120,398----$153,715
Calvert, MD---------------$120,097----$148,727
Contra Costa, CA---------$120,061----$177,292
Suffolk, NY----------------$119,838----$159,540
Frederick, MD------------$119,122----$164,034
Delaware, OH------------$119,030----$171,926
Middlesex, MA-----------$118,800----$186,436
Montgomery, MD--------$118,323---$187,966
Monmouth, NJ-----------$118,194----$163,786
Chester, PA---------------$117,232---$161,202
York, VA------------------$116,524----$147,015
King, WA------------------$116,255----$189,035
Carver, MN----------------$116,158----$160,920
Norfolk, MA--------------$115,969-----$186,738
Charles, MD--------------$115,880-----$154,250
Broomfield, CO---------$115,833-----$171,943
Oldham, KY---------------$115,187-----$154,632
Hamilton, IN-------------$114,807-----$167,959
Bergen, NJ----------------$114,332-----$170,153
St Marys, MD------------$113,717-----$177,578
Sussex, NJ---------------$113,640----$142,839
Scott, MN-----------------$113,311----$149,744
Collin, TX-----------------$113,305----$159,569
Anne Arundel, MD-----$113,125----$161,482
Alexandria, VA-----------$111,955----$197,989
San Benito, CA-----------$111,544----$132,753
Putnam, NY---------------$111,102----$162,238
Fayette, GA---------------$108,643----$153,797
Westchester, NY---------$108,144----$179,225
Rockingham, NH--------$107,442----$154,270
Montgomery, PA------$106,811----$157,706
Orange, CA----------------$106,209----$149,263
El Dorado, CA------------$105,982-----$165,268
Placer, CA------------------$105,445-----$161,494
Bucks, PA------------------$105,398-----$157,236
Fort Bend, TX-------------$105,205-----$139,829
Dallas, IA-------------------$105,132-----$169,003
Carroll, MD----------------$104,942-----$151,944
Union, OH-----------------$104,195-----$132,872
Davis, UT-------------------$103,563----$127,502
Hanover, VA---------------$103,370----$147,428
Plymouth, MA---------=---$103,173----$149,637
St Johns, FL----------------$103,017-----$144,595
Jefferson, CO-------------$102,731-----$157,070
Ventura, CA---------------$102,569-----$140,226
Denton, TX----------------$102,428-----$146,989
Middlesex, NJ------------$102,400-----$143,518
Geauga, OH--------------$102,350-----$143,503
DuPage, IL----------------$102,152------$155,153
Santa Cruz, CA-----------$102,146-----$153,013
Boone, IN------------------$102,005-----$153,360
Snohomish, WA----------$101,532------$144,696
Kendall, IL----------------$101,447------$123,551
Lake, IL------------------$101,442-----$143,028
Williamson, TX----------$101,323-----$138,735
Washington, DC--------$101,027-----$216,685
Harford, MD--------------$100,915-----$149,135
Chesterfield, VA---------$100,702-----$136,811
Burlington, NJ------------$100,478-----$142,568
Washington, RI----------$100,459-----$138,550
Rockland, NJ--------------$100,397-----$155,897
Napa, CA-----------------$100,318-----$155,226
Livingston, MI-----------$100,139-----$141,663
How are some of these cities. You chide the other poster for not living in a qualified city yet Marin is not a city.
Neither is placer. Any set of data can be skewed by changing parameters.
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Old 11-06-2023, 10:33 AM
 
3,149 posts, read 2,695,105 times
Reputation: 11965
Quote:
Originally Posted by blameyourself View Post
Only to those that are mathematically challenged. The current estimate of homelessness at some point in the year fall into the 20k range. San Francisco has approximately 815k people. It's highly unlikely 2 1/2% of the population would make that kind of dent on any of the numbers supplied by 18Montclair, but feel free to keep your hyperbole and bashing going. It would be laughable if it wasn't so boring at this point.
Just goes to show you how 2.5% of the population can ruin the image of a place.

Anyway, the decline of SF seems overblown to me. I've been visiting the city a few times a year since the early aughts and it's still a wonderful vibrant place. It seems nicer, fancier, and better in 2024 than I remember it being in 2008.

The present swing of the pendulum to becoming less tolerant of disruptive vagrants will bring even more positive change.
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Old 11-06-2023, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
11,402 posts, read 5,960,793 times
Reputation: 22356
As if homeless are the only criminals in town. Not the violent criminals from the hood. Not the organized criminals doing the smash and grabs. Not the illegals being forced by the cartels to sell drugs. LOL.

Yeah, ONLY homeless commit crimes in San Francisco. That is a good one.
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Old 11-06-2023, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,555 posts, read 10,607,780 times
Reputation: 36567
Quote:
Originally Posted by aslowdodge View Post
How are some of these cities. You chide the other poster for not living in a qualified city yet Marin is not a city.
Neither is placer. Any set of data can be skewed by changing parameters.
It appears that all of these places are counties. (Remember that San Francisco is a county as well as a city.) It was the original list that threw me, because it seemed like some places were cities proper and some were suburbs and some were metro areas. But I do appreciate that poster for showing the county figures, which I believe are much more comparable with each other than the entities on the first list were.
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Old 11-06-2023, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Cole Valley
45 posts, read 35,627 times
Reputation: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by wac_432 View Post
Anyway, the decline of SF seems overblown to me. I've been visiting the city a few times a year since the early aughts and it's still a wonderful vibrant place. It seems nicer, fancier, and better in 2024 than I remember it being in 2008.
It has a lot going for it with the hills, ocean and bay views, pleasant weather, and distinctive architecture. You're right about it being fancier - all the new tech and finance wealth have brought in a bunch of high end restaurants and such. We can even find $35 dog treats in our grocery stores.

As far as it being nicer, I'd have to strongly disagree. I've lived here since the 90s, and most of those fancy restaurants are surrounded by some pretty dystopian scenes. It's pretty well documented for anyone who takes off their "it's a far right conspiracy" blinders or spends any time walking around the city. You won't find many of those people saying it's nicer.

Also, it's not yet 2024.

Quote:
The present swing of the pendulum to becoming less tolerant of disruptive vagrants will bring even more positive change.
The current position of the pendulum swing is still very tolerant of disruptive vagrants.
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Old 11-06-2023, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Cole Valley
45 posts, read 35,627 times
Reputation: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
As if homeless are the only criminals in town. Not the violent criminals from the hood. Not the organized criminals doing the smash and grabs. Not the illegals being forced by the cartels to sell drugs. LOL.

Yeah, ONLY homeless commit crimes in San Francisco. That is a good one.
Who are you arguing with?
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Old 11-06-2023, 06:58 PM
 
2,379 posts, read 1,812,753 times
Reputation: 2057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
As if homeless are the only criminals in town. Not the violent criminals from the hood. Not the organized criminals doing the smash and grabs. Not the illegals being forced by the cartels to sell drugs. LOL.

Yeah, ONLY homeless commit crimes in San Francisco. That is a good one.
So, what is going on in Memphis? (a city much, much , closer to you than SF) That city seems to make just about every list of one of the most crime ridden cities
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