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Old 04-20-2009, 06:11 PM
 
Location: los angeles
5,032 posts, read 12,568,855 times
Reputation: 1508

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Quote:
TPSpecialist;8431800]Make no mistake, both ROTC and Obama's idea of national service are key to this country's success. We lose much of our superpower standing if we don't have a strong military in place to fight for our freedoms if the need arises. We also need people on the streets here volunteering to bolster national unity and to show that we care about the less fortunate in our society.

I also do not understand why you mentioned a Republican president. Was this story that old? The Democrats control the Presidency and Congress, I'm sure you know that though. Was it an attempt to bash a Republican randomly?
I made the connection of the school board's initial decision in 2006 to the strong resistance to President Bush's senseless war in Iraq [an issue that was actively demonstrated against in San Francisco]. I witnessed a similar reaction to recruiters on Venice Beach that required the police to escort them away. Now that the war is winding down I don't think it is a big problem anymore.

 
Old 04-20-2009, 06:21 PM
 
495 posts, read 1,827,935 times
Reputation: 205
This subject has been raging since the late 70's/early 80's when I was attending school in the SFUSD. It will never die. LOL.
 
Old 04-20-2009, 08:13 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,317,871 times
Reputation: 29336
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwoodlvr View Post
This subject has been raging since the late 70's/early 80's when I was attending school in the SFUSD. It will never die. LOL.
Well, it might. Even the youngest of us who served then are in their 50s while a huge number of us are in our 60s Give us another 30-50 years and as old soldiers do we'll just have faded away.

Last edited by Curmudgeon; 04-20-2009 at 08:30 PM..
 
Old 04-20-2009, 09:17 PM
 
Location: SanLorenzo
5 posts, read 24,897 times
Reputation: 11
Most SanFranciscans seem to hate anyone with any sort of authority, regardless of its being the dog catcher or someone in the military. If they had really cared about having a military presence and its wonderful addition to the economy, they would have actively fought to save the once numerous military installations in and around the city. As is usual in the city, unless it is the activist cause De Jour, you get a group shoulder shrug and they wander off. Truth hurts doesnt it!
 
Old 04-20-2009, 09:23 PM
 
652 posts, read 1,778,682 times
Reputation: 363
A little history and common sense. The US Amred Forces is always at the front of social change (sans the gay thing which seems odd to me, I suspect religion is at the root of this) they have always done first what the general society eventually accepted as right. Examples, allowing black men to serve, allowing women to serve, integrating the services, all moves ahead of their time which lead to general societal growth and improvement.
What the US Armed Forces is reviled for like in Vietnam and now with the torture of hundreds of innocents, (torture fails 100% of the time) is always the action of individuals not loyal to the US Constitution. They are personally loyal to a leader or a cause, this loyalty is based on dogma that allows them to break the law because they "are doing the PATRIOTIC thing" . It is always an individual (Ollie North anyone?) at the root of any problem, an individual whose criminal actions reflect on us all.
The incidents in Vietnam, and the torture, both are anomalies caused by individuals thinking they knew better, and that they were better than those they abused. Some perpetrators were just stupid people manipulated by these PATRIOTS. It is a complete abandonment of the US military code of conduct, and the US Constitution. The same aplies to CIA or FBI abuses of power and position, in fact it applies everywhere all the time. It is a person who can be named at the root, always. Not a concept like "America" or "the Military" etc...
The Constitution;
Have you noticed that most people act like they have never read it or that they do not believe in it's precepts these days? Where are our ideals? Bush certainly didn't embody them.
Oh yea, any day is a good day to bash a republican. They have become scum and any fool who supports them, well I hope a bee stings you for every time you voted for one. It is republican religious perversity and GREED, that has our nation on it's knees and I have my doubts as to whether it will survive. Don't get all happy dems, they are just as bad and will acrue new crimes soon enough.

The SF link is old and not real honest. Sure a bunch of dumb kids might be vociferous and angry about the armed forces but Sf in general is pro military. Someone on here mentioned the bases, the whole Bay Area was covered in em until Ron Dellums got his revenge for some slight. Now they're mostly in Seattle. Still there are a lot of bases on the Bay and around the bay. I have only ever seen the unwashed and unthinking bash the military when I lived there.

Last edited by nutleynut; 04-20-2009 at 09:38 PM..
 
Old 04-20-2009, 10:44 PM
 
57 posts, read 138,407 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacy From Cali View Post
The Republican president was mentioned because the city of San Francisco first banned the JROTC from public schools in 2006.

While I agree with you that national service of some type is a very good idea, I think its time for our so-called superpower status to go. The idea of a superpower is a Cold War leftover and creates nothing but hard feelings worldwide.
I would agree with you that our super-power status needs to go if we were the only one's who had attained super-power status. China, Russia, Japan, England, and some other European countries like Germany I would consider super-powers (I have a very liberal definition of super-power). We would be worse off as a country if we lost the super-power status. IMHO, the elitist nature of our politicians is what needs to go. We can have power while refraining from flexing our muscles constantly.
 
Old 04-21-2009, 01:05 AM
 
219 posts, read 761,453 times
Reputation: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacy From Cali View Post
The Republican president was mentioned because the city of San Francisco first banned the JROTC from public schools in 2006.

While I agree with you that national service of some type is a very good idea, I think its time for our so-called superpower status to go. The idea of a superpower is a Cold War leftover and creates nothing but hard feelings worldwide.
The problem is human nature, some Country will be the super power of the World. No hoping, rallies, or prayer circles will ever change the desire to be top dog.
 
Old 04-21-2009, 01:35 AM
 
Location: SanLorenzo
5 posts, read 24,897 times
Reputation: 11
I cant help but laugh a lil' bit at some of the wonderous replies that got a bit off th topic, but oh well. Since Its bash a republican time, lets add a bit more to the political stew. Ron Dellums the "Dumocrat" was one of the instrumental liberals behind the base closures, a card carrying nitwit with an obvious axe to grind. In response to the bee sting, may those who voted democrat suddenly find that a large lusty pit bull has taken interest in your leg. Face it folks, some of us do care about the military and its presence in the Bay Area, but the majority just didnt care. Its gotten so bad that they even shut down both the USMC reserve and The ANG at the Hayward airport. If we care then we become vocal and write letters, make phonecalls and everything we possibly can do to draw attention to the Issue, otherwise we you sit back and shrug your shoulders and drink a broccoli milkshake and wonder why all the money for your pet political project is gone. I still fail to see how being a world power has anything to do with the lack of military presence in the BayArea. As far as the remark about us loosing our superpower status lacks a few things. We are pretty much regarded as the country to go to for problems around the world. If we give up that position, which you failed to mention how we go about doing, then a lot of countries AND their economies will suffer. Superpower as you put it is most definetly not a coldwar leftover.
 
Old 04-21-2009, 07:20 AM
 
701 posts, read 2,022,859 times
Reputation: 377
Berkeley protests persist at Marine recruiting center | Oakland Tribune | Find Articles at BNET
 
Old 04-21-2009, 07:20 AM
 
516 posts, read 1,335,331 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlorenzodave View Post
We are pretty much regarded as the country to go to for problems around the world. If we give up that position, which you failed to mention how we go about doing, then a lot of countries AND their economies will suffer. Superpower as you put it is most definetly not a coldwar leftover.
We see ourselves as the world police...the world does not regard us as such. We need to step back and let the United Nations and the World Court do their jobs.
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