Why Does San Francisco Hate The Military? (Berkeley, Alameda: appointed, fit in)

[happ]

Originally Posted by sanlorenzodave

I cant help but laugh a lil' bit at some of the wonderous replies that got a bit off th topic, but oh well. Since Its bash a republican time, lets add a bit more to the political stew. Ron Dellums the "Dumocrat" was one of the instrumental liberals behind the base closures, a card carrying nitwit with an obvious axe to grind. In response to the bee sting, may those who voted democrat suddenly find that a large lusty pit bull has taken interest in your leg. Face it folks, some of us do care about the military and its presence in the Bay Area, but the majority just didnt care. Its gotten so bad that they even shut down both the USMC reserve and The ANG at the Hayward airport. If we care then we become vocal and write letters, make phonecalls and everything we possibly can do to draw attention to the Issue, otherwise we you sit back and shrug your shoulders and drink a broccoli milkshake and wonder why all the money for your pet political project is gone. I still fail to see how being a world power has anything to do with the lack of military presence in the BayArea. As far as the remark about us loosing our superpower status lacks a few things. We are pretty much regarded as the country to go to for problems around the world. If we give up that position, which you failed to mention how we go about doing, then a lot of countries AND their economies will suffer. Superpower as you put it is most definetly not a coldwar leftover.

My understanding of base closing had more to do with unnecessary cost rather than need for military installations. Base closings have happened all over the nation & have nothing to do with national defense. The Bay Area had many bases because that was necessary during WW2; that is certainly no longer the case anymore.

Republicans & Democrats alike weighed in on the closings. Some areas wanted the bases to remain for economic purposes. Other areas wanted back the land for other purposes [ie. Presidio in San Francisco\ Treasure Is\ Fort Ord is now a state university in Monterey]. These actions had nothing to do with patriotism.

[BayDude]

Originally Posted by Stacy From Cali

No, I'm sorry but you are wrong. What the article actually said was this:

"Four of the seven school board members support the JROTC program, but nonetheless voted against the state bill, saying that they believe it should be up to locally elected officials to decide the issue and that the Legislature should stay out of it."

and

"Board members are expected to vote next month on a pending resolution to restore JROTC."

If matters on the board are decided by a simple majority vote than they do have enough support to restore JROTC (4 of the 7 support it) and it appears they are well on the way to doing so (pending resolution to restore JROTC). Furthermore the state bill was created because San Francisco voters passed Proposition V in support of retaining JROTC, which clearly indicates that the majority of San Franciscans see the value of the program (and by extention, of the military).

So perhaps YOU should re-read the article and this time include the big words. And stop fearmongering fergodssake.

Why would they vote against the state bill if they supported it in the first place?

They struck it down in 2006. What makes you think they are going to bring it back if they again struck downa state proposal?

"Local goverments rights" or not those schools are funded with state money. That whole issue is non-sense, and the real issue is personal politics and agendas.

This is basically showing that they have shown no indication that they will bring the ROTC programs back. They voted against the state bill 6 to 1 (meaning at least 1 person actually voted for the bill).

You might have an argument once they bring it up for vote again and if they vote to reinstate it. But we'll see who's right and who's not come next month. I wouldn't count on it though.

[BayDude]

Originally Posted by Stacy From Cali

We see ourselves as the world police...the world does not regard us as such. We need to step back and let the United Nations and the World Court do their jobs.

You must be joking. Seriously.

Like how the UN is doing its job in darfur right? Excellent job they are doing over there.

What "job" has the UN ever done in any successful capacity?

The UN is a morally inept and parasitic organization. Its only job is to take tax dollars and pay lip service to "global village issues" and hold "official gatherings" that do nothing for anyone.

No thanks. I'll take my "world police".

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Stacy From Cali

We see ourselves as the world police...the world does not regard us as such. We need to step back and let the United Nations and the World Court do their jobs.

The last time I trusted either of those agencies I must have been in about 6th grade and that was 50 years of experience ago. They would love to rob us of our sovereignty, plunder us and rule the world.

As philosopher and poet George Santayana famously observed, "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

[Stacy From Cali]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

The last time I trusted either of those agencies I must have been in about 6th grade and that was 50 years of experience ago. They would love to rob us of our sovereignty, plunder us and rule the world.

As philosopher and poet George Santayana famously observed, "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Famously and tritely...indeed. That quote is a history teacher's worst nightmare.

So, remind me, what was the last country that the United Nations robbed of their sovereignty and plundered? So where is the repeat of history? (also what the heck would they be repeating?)

And what was the last country that the United States robbed of its sovereignty and plundered? Ah yes, that one is a recent memory...

I think you have your players mixed up in this game. Imperialism is alive and well.

[Stacy From Cali]

Originally Posted by BayDude

You must be joking. Seriously.

Like how the UN is doing its job in darfur right? Excellent job they are doing over there.

What "job" has the UN ever done in any successful capacity?

The UN is a morally inept and parasitic organization. Its only job is to take tax dollars and pay lip service to "global village issues" and hold "official gatherings" that do nothing for anyone.

No thanks. I'll take my "world police".

That's right the UN cannot do much of anything in Darfur because they do not have enough power. They lack that power because if the United States does not give full support to anything we can block it. An unfortunate arrangement that we hold on to because we want to be the world police. Unfortunately in a situation like Darfur what ends up happening is nothing...because all out military power is busy policing another conflict.

[sonarrat]

Originally Posted by BayDude

I don't think you even read the article, or you just have poor reading comprehension

My only mistake was saying a 7 to 1 vote. Everything else was pretty much right. That is, they voted against a state measure that would restore ROTC (to publicly funded schools) to its rightful place. The San Francisco school board struck down the program in 2006 Assemblywoman Fiona Ma created a measure to restore it. Those are the facts.

The article, at no time, made a mention about being "willing to bring it back and they have the votes to do so" at all so I don't know where that came from. Its coming up for vote, but I don't think they have any intention of "bringing it back".

Get your facts straight.

Hey, I got a couple extra dimensions if you need to borrow them for your arguments. Just thought I'd offer.

[Huckleberry3911948]

that is not true ---look at the air force pilot on extreme right

http://www.teamteabag.com/wp-content...e_people_1.jpg

[BayDude]

Originally Posted by sonarrat

Hey, I got a couple extra dimensions if you need to borrow them for your arguments. Just thought I'd offer.

Sorry but don't see your point. Try again.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by sanlorenzodave

I cant help but laugh a lil' bit at some of the wonderous replies that got a bit off th topic, but oh well. Since Its bash a republican time, lets add a bit more to the political stew. Ron Dellums the "Dumocrat" was one of the instrumental liberals behind the base closures, a card carrying nitwit with an obvious axe to grind. In response to the bee sting, may those who voted democrat suddenly find that a large lusty pit bull has taken interest in your leg. Face it folks, some of us do care about the military and its presence in the Bay Area, but the majority just didnt care. Its gotten so bad that they even shut down both the USMC reserve and The ANG at the Hayward airport. If we care then we become vocal and write letters, make phonecalls and everything we possibly can do to draw attention to the Issue, otherwise we you sit back and shrug your shoulders and drink a broccoli milkshake and wonder why all the money for your pet political project is gone. I still fail to see how being a world power has anything to do with the lack of military presence in the BayArea. As far as the remark about us loosing our superpower status lacks a few things. We are pretty much regarded as the country to go to for problems around the world. If we give up that position, which you failed to mention how we go about doing, then a lot of countries AND their economies will suffer. Superpower as you put it is most definetly not a coldwar leftover.

Funny how Dellums worked together so well with then-Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney in helping to close most of the bases and screw over the economy of the Bay Area.

Dellums was just another politician who started out with good intentions and got corrupted by the system. The people of Oakland were nuts for electing him mayor.