SF looks to bag paper, not just plastic (San Francisco, Banning: sales, crime)

[City Boy]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

I find this extremely annoying. I use grocery bags as trash bags. Now I will have to go out and buy them after I go through my stash.

Why can't people just be responsible?

I can see charging for bags, but I don't think they should ban them.

And why do they have to pass a law for every little thing? I don't like it that our liberty is being legislated away in large ways and small. It's always done in the name of the common good or in the name of economic or military security.

I think that saying about those who give up their liberty in the name of security will have neither is really true. Too bad it's all but forgotten.

You can thank the extreme left wing environmentalists for this. If it were up to them, we'd all be naked and living in caves.

[BayDude]

Originally Posted by City Boy

You can thank the extreme left wing environmentalists for this. If it were up to them, we'd all be naked and living in caves.

Wow Cityboy calling out the left?

Has hell frozen over in Oakland?

[BayDude]

Originally Posted by Mach50

What don't you think will help much: Less bags and trash, or the discount?

You have to have a livable planet before you can have Capitalism.

You obviously don't understand Capitalism. This is a not a real free market system that we have now but a combination of markets and government controls/ownership.

If all property were privately owned we would'nt have environmental problems. For example, If someone polluted on your property or dumped garbage, cut down trees etc you would simply sue them and make it economically unviable for them to continue doing so. It is in our own best interest to maintain our property.

[Bluesmama]

I recycle a LOT of paper scraps, and where I live we're supposed to have them in paperbags for the recycle can. So I always like to keep some paperbags on hand; in fact, I've started to request them again. And if you don't use them, you can recycle the bags themselves.

On the other hand, I have way more plastic bags than I need. I recycle the smaller ones for my wastecans.

Trying to get better about using cloth ones once in awhile but my Cost+ and Costco bags are the only ones with a big enough loop on the handles (for shoulders).

[Wandering_Spirit]

Just curious - how much are these cloth bags at the grocery store? Where I live they are offered as an alternative for the low price of $1 each and I find them to be very useful.

[terrence81]

I'm okay with this. What I'm not okay with is forcing private businesses to do this. I can't which grocery store offers it but I know there's a few that give discounts for bringing your own bag.

I can see both sides. On one hand forcing businesses to do anything goes against capitalism. At the same time it's been argued that an under regulated market is the cause of the current recession. So there does have to be balance. And forcing businesses to offer a ten cent discount is a bit much.

On the other hand using fewer bags is definitely better for the environment. Yeah I reuse my plastic bags too. I rarely just throw a plastic bag away, maybe at work or if I"m not at home for whatever reason but I think in the end it's still better for the environment to use fewer bags.

I think the compromise would be to encourage businesses to adopt this practice through tax or service incentives versus putting a gun to their heads.

[bipolarpunk]

This is another attempt of Eco-Nazis attempting to control the lives of the average citizen usually at the expense of the poor and working class (that many libs claim they stand for)..

Cloth bags starting cost is 99 cents each.. The Average family would need about 20 to 30 of these bags, which are usually made in countries that DON'T have the same concern for enviornmental regulations that the Ecocentrics hold (ex: China).. Now with record high unemployment, that 20 dollars in which these families are going to be REQUIRED to spend on cloth bags will usually mean they will need to purchase LESS at the grocery store OR purchase cheaper, less healthier foods..

AND.. this doesn't even take into account the numerous folks that reuse their plastic bags for garbage bags at home OR to scoop cat litter into..

This is a very slippery slope AND although I believe strongly in preserving the enviornment and the animal life that inhabit it, many enviornmental regulations ONLY place a burden on the poor and working class. Many of which don't have jobs in California because of the ridiculous enviornmental regulations that have scared business and industry away from the state..

[ukiyo-e]

Originally Posted by Radical347

Hmm, I don't think is going to help that much. (Nor is it really targeting paper bags.) While I certainly don't mind having a discount, I think an idea that would better encourage people to bring their own bags would be charge 5-10 cents per bag as some people do. IKEA did that - just 5 cents a bag and I read they reduced the number of bags they gave out by 92%.

My Safeway give a 3 cents per bag credit if you bring your own. I keep a stack of paper grocery bags and a couple canvas ones in the trunk and have finally gotten in the habit of always remembering to take some into the store. It's AMAZING how many times you can re-use a paper bag before it starts to fall apart. I have a couple that have been used once a week for well over a year now.

What I don't like are the $30 ripoff "eco-friendly" reusable bags that prey on PC liberals fears of polluting. Just buy the 99 cent store brand reusable bags or reuse your plastic or paper ones!

[clongirl]

Originally Posted by bipolarpunk

This is another attempt of Eco-Nazis attempting to control the lives of the average citizen usually at the expense of the poor and working class (that many libs claim they stand for)..

Cloth bags starting cost is 99 cents each.. The Average family would need about 20 to 30 of these bags, which are usually made in countries that DON'T have the same concern for enviornmental regulations that the Ecocentrics hold (ex: China).. Now with record high unemployment, that 20 dollars in which these families are going to be REQUIRED to spend on cloth bags will usually mean they will need to purchase LESS at the grocery store OR purchase cheaper, less healthier foods..

AND.. this doesn't even take into account the numerous folks that reuse their plastic bags for garbage bags at home OR to scoop cat litter into..

This is a very slippery slope AND although I believe strongly in preserving the enviornment and the animal life that inhabit it, many enviornmental regulations ONLY place a burden on the poor and working class. Many of which don't have jobs in California because of the ridiculous enviornmental regulations that have scared business and industry away from the state..

The thing is..it's not a new idea. It's done all over Europe and it's really not the big deal that you're making it. It's made a huge impact on the amount of litter and trash there.

In fact, in much of Europe you actually need to put in a euro to use a shopping cart..this is so the store gets it back and you don't see people stealing them and leaving them on the side of the road. Also, not a big deal..If you forgot to bring a Euro, the store will give you a token.

The impact on the poor is minimal...So initially they will have to purchase a few re-usable bags for a small amount (but I'm sure you can donate a few to the cashier for the poor if you're so concerned). Then the poor can learn to bring their bags to the supermarket like the wealthy. Are you suggesting that the poor are unable to change their habits?

I think people need to be proud that California (and particularly the Bay Area) is ahead of the rest of the nation on progressive ideas. Not saying that all ideas are great, but such a small change can make such a huge difference over time.

[bipolarpunk]

Originally Posted by clongirl

The thing is..it's not a new idea. It's done all over Europe and it's really not the big deal that you're making it. It's made a huge impact on the amount of litter and trash there.

In fact, in much of Europe you actually need to put in a euro to use a shopping cart..this is so the store gets it back and you don't see people stealing them and leaving them on the side of the road. Also, not a big deal..If you forgot to bring a Euro, the store will give you a token.

The impact on the poor is minimal...So initially they will have to purchase a few re-usable bags for a small amount (but I'm sure you can donate a few to the cashier for the poor if you're so concerned). Then the poor can learn to bring their bags to the supermarket like the wealthy. Are you suggesting that the poor are unable to change their habits?

I think people need to be proud that California (and particularly the Bay Area) is ahead of the rest of the nation on progressive ideas. Not saying that all ideas are great, but such a small change can make such a huge difference over time.

The thing is: Last time I checked, this ISN'T Europe.. and the U.S. defeated the English in the 1700's..

That said, stating that it "won't really impact the poor" is pretty elitist.. A canvas bag made in CHINA is going to have little impact on "saving" the enviornment, but it may help to lose more American jobs as baggers at grocery stores are cut since there isn't any merit in having someone on payroll just to put items in a canvas bag (there is No longer a need for someone to maintain and restock plastic bags).. Again, another liberal EcoNazi idea that costs American jobs..

That said, has there actually been studies on the impact of the poor and working class as a result of this? and when I say studies, I don't mean an organization that has a vested interest in passing these nanny-state type laws..

Saving the enviornment should be done with educating the public and allowing the public to make a choice NOT by taking away choices from the public by legislation..

Just a few years back, paper bags were replaced with plastic at many stores because of enviornmentalist uproar, now, when some enviornmental group gets up in arms about canvas bags, what will come next? $10.00 a bag Organic Hemp Bags? I'm betting that's not too far off..