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Old 01-05-2010, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Riverside, CA
2,404 posts, read 4,402,724 times
Reputation: 2282

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One great thing about Texas is the pride that Texans have in their home state. Don't fault Californians when they take some pride in their home state!

 
Old 01-05-2010, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Denver
9,963 posts, read 18,499,454 times
Reputation: 6181
It is very easy to live minimally in the Bay. If you are single and cannot make it by on 120k a year then you are overspending IMO. I know entire families 2adults/3kids who live on less than that here ..yes they are very happy going to the beach in December . They rent a house, kids in public schools (no not a 10 OMG), and cars are paid off... totally doable.

No it is not high class luxury living, but the average person doesn't really NEED luxury.

The "average person" in the Bay is a little different though, first off they probably rent, they more than likely buy groceries and cook vs going out for Sushi every night (like NYC). They probably enjoy the outdoors, which are basically free or low cost. They probably don't have a 3000sq ft house to heat/cool and maintain.

If buying a house is a such a big deal for you, then yes you will have to save a lot or move inland it is just a fact of life. However, to rent on 120k you should be able to live anywhere IMO.

Last edited by Mach50; 01-05-2010 at 11:03 AM..
 
Old 01-05-2010, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,448,062 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonarrat View Post
By the way, if you take your nice big California dollars and go back to Texas to buy a nice big house, guess what - you're just going to do to Texas what your opportunistic kind already did to California. Unlike you, I don't live here because I'm in the business of raping and pillaging a region and its helpless residents, driving their tax rates insane and then taking the money elsewhere to benefit someone else's economy. I live here because I grew up here. I'm one of the new generation of Californians who has to deal with the crap that every person with a bachelor's degree and dollar signs in their eyes dumped on this state over the past 20 years. You have nothing to blame but your own selfish mentality for the condition this place is in.
I am just curious how do people like him "drive tax rates insane"???
One thing I do find very disappointing about California is the state income tax. What do you get for it? What does the state do with your money? We get everything you get in Texas but we have no state income tax. I never understood how or why your state income tax is so high and what does your state do with the money??
 
Old 01-05-2010, 11:13 AM
 
3,098 posts, read 3,785,557 times
Reputation: 2580
based on family size how much you need to be "rich" or "really rich" in the san francisco MSA from money central/US world and news reports

the top 20% sf household income-
$257,399 average income
$202,000 couple without kids
$405,339 family of four





top 4%
$456,008 average income
$359,061 couple without kids
$718,123 family of four

How to know if you're rich -- in your city - MSN Money




about the sailing .the bay has some super sailing.compared to other places the wind is incredibly consistant(but usually in the same direction) and if you are only experienced with light winds you can get your butt kicked.hardcores sail year round can't do that in seattle.

Last edited by ssmaster; 01-05-2010 at 11:24 AM..
 
Old 01-05-2010, 11:17 AM
 
30,897 posts, read 36,958,653 times
Reputation: 34526
Quote:
Originally Posted by bay090 View Post
HAHA. I'm proven with facts? That the overwhelming majority people in the Bay Area CAN NOT afford the Bay Area? Or afford to OWN a home? Do you think MOST people here rent for fun? No, they rent because the vast majority here can not afford to own a home. Are you really disputing that? That people are FLEEING the area in droves to Texas? Please don't tell me you think otherwise!!!!

I'll say it once again. My companies have offices in SF, DC and Dallas. The equivalent of what I do pays $95,000ish in Dallas..but $120,000 in San Francisco.

My colleagues in Dallas are wealthier than me when you look at the whole pictures. They live better lifestyles. First world lifestyles and socialize with normal non-IT weird zombies from the 3rd world. I technically make more, but pay is adjusted for the cost of living. It doesn't make my colleagues in Dallas "losers" (as someone so eloquently put it)...we do the exact same thing. The difference is - I just mistakenly chose to move to this filthy city and deal with dirty homeless people day in day out and they chose America.

Now I understand what people mean when they say the schools here are dismal. People on this forum have such a hard time grasping this simple cost of living/pay inflation fact! I would never have kids here..yikes.

My colleagues in Dallas live in nice homes, drive nice cars, and I'm living in the third world surrounded by nothing with immigrants from India who don't assimilate.

Its hilarious how the loons here think everyone in the Bay lives on the coastline, goes to napa and takes advantage of the scenic parts of the city when most people here are provincial and stay within their comfort zone and have NEVER gone wine tasting in their life. You guys crack me up.

Then I was recommended Oakland but...yikes! Talk about terrible!gl
Some of your points are valid, but you exaggerate way too much. It's like other posters have said or implied, California has become a complacent, anti-growth, elitist, state, which is why we have high taxes and crappy public services.

I agree with you that some (not all) of the tech people here are like zombies.

I know this may come as a shock to you, but some people don't really care about having lots of living space or owning their own homes (or at least, they don't care about it as much as you do). I'm one of them.

If having a big house and living a typical "American Dream" lifestyle is what you want, you really need to stop whining and take some action and move to a place like Dallas.
 
Old 01-05-2010, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Denver
9,963 posts, read 18,499,454 times
Reputation: 6181
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
If having a big house and living a typical "American Dream" lifestyle is what you want, you really need to stop whining and take some action and move to a place like Dallas.
/thread
 
Old 01-05-2010, 11:28 AM
 
30,897 posts, read 36,958,653 times
Reputation: 34526
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
East Oakland's worst would be considered wealthy and upscale by third world standards.
I've been to the 3rd world (Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Mexico) and ummm, now you're the one doing the exaggerating.

It's true the 3rd World has much worse slums than we have in the US (especially in Brazil). That said, middle & upper middle class people from any 3rd World country would most definitely not be willing to live in East Oakland.
 
Old 01-05-2010, 11:31 AM
 
30,897 posts, read 36,958,653 times
Reputation: 34526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Stats? Numbers?

Actually, Bay90 is right about that. Most of the population growth in CA has been from immigration from other countries and high birth rates.

The stats have been out there in the mainstream media. Sorry, I don't feel like googling them right now.
 
Old 01-05-2010, 11:32 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,390,347 times
Reputation: 9059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
It is very easy to live minimally in the Bay. If you are single and cannot make it by on 120k a year then you are overspending IMO. I know entire families 2adults/3kids who live on less than that here ..yes they are very happy going to the beach in December . They rent a house, kids in public schools (no not a 10 OMG), and cars are paid off... totally doable.

No it is not high class luxury living, but the average person doesn't really NEED luxury.

The "average person" in the Bay is a little different though, first off they probably rent, they more than likely buy groceries and cook vs going out for Sushi every night (like NYC). They probably enjoy the outdoors, which are basically free or low cost. They probably don't have a 3000sq ft house to heat/cool and maintain.

If buying a house is a such a big deal for you, then yes you will have to save a lot or move inland it is just a fact of life. However, to rent on 120k you should be able to live anywhere IMO.
Spoken like a person who truly knows the Bay Area and understands it.

Most of what we do in the Bay Area is all about enjoying the outdoors as the Bay Area is blessed with so much. There's a reason why there are so many natural parks all over the place. The East Bay Regional Park District has big wild areas that run almost the entire length of the east bay hills just behind the inner cities. Tilden Park was one of my playgrounds. Then there are state parks such as Samual P Taylor Park where one can enjoy Redwood forest. Stinson State Beach. Then there's Point Reye's National Seashore. Even within the cities there are nice places to go outside. Lake Merritt in Oakland is still one of my favorites. Golden Gate Park in SF is another. All of these things are free or almost free and this is just the tip of the iceberg. These things alone make a for a great quality of life.
 
Old 01-05-2010, 11:47 AM
 
30,897 posts, read 36,958,653 times
Reputation: 34526
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
I am just curious how do people like him "drive tax rates insane"???
One thing I do find very disappointing about California is the state income tax. What do you get for it? What does the state do with your money? We get everything you get in Texas but we have no state income tax. I never understood how or why your state income tax is so high and what does your state do with the money??
The short version: The state wastes it.

Here's a slightly longer version:

A lot of the money is being blown on over generous pensions for public sector workers. I work in the public sector. Unlike most public sector workers, I choose not to live in denial of financial reality. The pension benfits promised most public sector workers are not sustainable.

The state also blows a lot of other money. We have a lot of illegal immigrants who don't contribute much to the tax base but take a lot in services (especially, but not limited to, the schools). The state makes little or no effort to deport illegal immigrants or deny them services. (Yes, I know it's a Federal issue. But lets be honest, other states work harder to find ways to discourage illegal immigrantion than CA does.

The state also expanded eligibility for state sponsored health care coverage for lower income people in the late 1990s without a long term way to fund it. Since health care costs have been going up at double the rate of inflation for decades, it's hardly a surprise that the costs of this keep mounting.

In general, California's legislature (and much of the populace) thinks the answer to solving problems is by spending more money, instead of changing/streamlining the way services are delivered.
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