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I have never lived on the East Coast, but have been there enough to observe that there is a tendency for people to be straight forward, blunt, rude even, loud and aggressive in their approach to others. Of course, not everyone is like that, but you see more of it that in CA. In CA, people do seem to care more about offending people, seem a bit quieter, sometimes a bit passive-aggressive in critisizing someone, are less likely to be loud and aggressive. Of course, not everyone is like that, but I have seen it more than on the East Coast. So what? Cultures are different in different places. Do we really want the country to be even more homogenous? There are different behavioral norms. I don't see why people complain about it. If you can't adapt to the culture you are in, you need to go to a culture where you are comfortable. Its as simple as that. It is pointless to contend that all cultures should be just like yours and everyone else is flawed.
Wow, the past few pages have been incredibly interesting reading; thanks especially to G Grasshopper, rah, 415_s2k, Salty VW etc etc. The comments made me wonder if the culture in California leans toward pacifism or just plain intelligent assessment of an situation. I am not experienced enough to gauge inter-personal dynamics in the workplace but I do know the streets and how to navigate around trouble. I think there is much more aggression in the younger people but frankly have come to the conclusion that marijuana smoking tends to mellow people out a whole lot. When I visited New York City for the first time earlier this year I noticed a lot more in-your-face aggression than what we are accustom to in California. People on the subway, at Coney Island or just walking in Central Pk where you would think it would be chill, were so much more verbal with each other even if it were total strangers. There was a hardness and edge that I don't really see here whether in Los Angeles or San Francisco.
I see plenty of fights & have been in a few myself but that was in public schools and not that much on the street. In New York people want to punch you out if you look at them wrong or don't cross the street fast enough and they have to slow their car for a second. I must admit that I did enjoy the assertive expression of NYC and even wrote down some of my observations in a journal that I am working on. But I also feel more relaxed in California where people can be less involved with each other but also less effected by one another. Again, my hunch is that the marijuana culture in California is like a tranquilizer and people just mellow out and laugh rather than curse and fight even if it is sort of stupid.
Sorry, but tough guy stories don't come across very well to strangers, especially on the internet.
And I don't go telling strangers this when I first meet them for this very reason.
I don't really care what experiences I relate on the internet as there's most likely no way this is really going to get back to who I actually am and affect my day-to-day life, so I can say it. It's somewhat cathartic, in a way. Just highlighting a situation that happened here in the 'Bay and how people from different regions handle aggression.
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So you beat up some guy and a bouncer.
Yep.
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First, we should believe you?
Doesn't really matter.
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And then we should care?
You obviously don't, and I don't necessarily expect you to, so why ask redundant questions?
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There are plenty of people here who would also lay you out on the ground, just as you have claimed to have laid those two dudes out...believe me.
Do you think that I'm not aware of this or something?
If the guy would have had a gun and regained consciousness, I could have ended up with my brains plastered against the opposite wall, and if the bouncer was worth his salt/paycheck, he probably could have at least put me in a chokehold in my intoxicated state.
The reality of it is that there is a simple difference between getting called out in Boston or NYC and getting called out in SF. In Boston or NYC, you don't call someone out unless you're expecting to get into a fight with them. In SF, you expect that most likely the person will most likely capitulate. I have noted this to be the case personally, as have many East Coasters, and for that matter, a West Coaster in this thread who observed this in NYC.
A lot of people from Germany note that Americans on the whole lack the sense of national unity they have. People from one culture who find themselves in another will notice such things.
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Why do east coast transplants always act like they're superior when it comes to getting physical?
I'm sure there are hundreds of people in SF that could KO me. I'm kind of rusty and I was never a prize fighter myself. That doesn't change the fact that I've also probably been in way more fights than most people and can hold my own. Sorry if that comes across as "superior," but it's the truth.
If I were to have a couple guys with guns throw me up against a wall in the Mission and demand my wallet... well, they'd walk away with a really nice wallet.
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This is why we make fun of you guys for trying so hard to be tough.
Fine with me.
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To us, that post you just made is "trying too hard".
That's fine.
To me, yours seems butthurt.
If you pay attention to what I say and this in other threads, I actually defend SF and the West Coast in general frequently from a lot of the "NYC is better" types. I did make a conscious decision to drive all the way out here and set about making a life for myself, after all.
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You do what you gotta do, but no one really gives a ****, and no one wants to hear you brag about being a tough guy.
Too late! I win.
Seriously though, you seem like you need to be swaddled in an afghan and given some warm apple juice.
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People here don't think people who fight are "shocking brutes" any more than anyone else does. Do you think no one ever fights here or something? That said, if your story is true, that guy was a douche and got what was coming to him. Wow, you see? I just said "he got what was coming to him". It's NOT only people in Boston who think like that. What a revelation.
Well, you did just add credence to something I posted elsewhere, about sarcasm being much more prevalent on the West Coast than on the East Coast. What a shame, it's so unbecoming.
That said, the whole substance of your post is that I'm a meathead who needs to shut up because I'd relay this story because no one here would agree with my meatheaded self and my meatheaded actions. Now, you say that he got what was coming to him.
I'm just going to guess that you haven't had your coffee yet. Don't worry, you'll get there
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I've known plenty of people here in the Bay who will tell you exactly what they think, and how they feel, if you're pissing them off. Some of them will even act on it with violence. I don't know why you guys seem to think this only happens on the east coast.
Did I say anywhere that I thought that it did?
After all, that story I told involved a guy who was likely from the Bay area calling me out and using violence against me. I just out-violenced him. GO RED SOX.
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We get it. You east coasters are all tough, straight to the point, honest, stoic, no-nonsense people who get what they want, and here in the west we're all just lazy, PC, whiney, weaklings who can't fight or stand up for ourselves. Ok. Whatever you say, you transplants of infinite wisdom. Please educate us more about ourselves.
You really, really do need to chill the hell out, my friend. For every bit of machismo that I have that makes me seem childish, you seem to have an overbearing sensitivity that makes you look the same, at least in this instance. I'm sure that you care about how people perceive this about as much as I do, but I figured it's only fair for me to point this out.
I've actually railed against the over/misuse of the term "political correctness" quite often. My god, do I hate that term. See my post above the one that sent you into a turpor where I defended California.
In any case: Wicked pissah, Paul Revere, Ted Kennedy, etc. Have a good one.
Wow, the past few pages have been incredibly interesting reading; thanks especially to G Grasshopper, rah, 415_s2k, Salty VW etc etc. The comments made me wonder if the culture in California leans toward pacifism or just plain intelligent assessment of an situation. I am not experienced enough to gauge inter-personal dynamics in the workplace but I do know the streets and how to navigate around trouble. I think there is much more aggression in the younger people but frankly have come to the conclusion that marijuana smoking tends to mellow people out a whole lot. When I visited New York City for the first time earlier this year I noticed a lot more in-your-face aggression than what we are accustom to in California. People on the subway, at Coney Island or just walking in Central Pk where you would think it would be chill, were so much more verbal with each other even if it were total strangers. There was a hardness and edge that I don't really see here whether in Los Angeles or San Francisco.
I think that it's more a cultural thing than a result of the region's preferred inebriates, because believe me, there are plenty of stoners in the Northeast! People tend to keep quieter about it because our laws are still much more strict, but people still have a few rips behind closed doors.
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I see plenty of fights & have been in a few myself but that was in public schools and not that much on the street. In New York people want to punch you out if you look at them wrong or don't cross the street fast enough and they have to slow their car for a second. I must admit that I did enjoy the assertive expression of NYC and even wrote down some of my observations in a journal that I am working on. But I also feel more relaxed in California where people can be less involved with each other but also less effected by one another. Again, my hunch is that the marijuana culture in California is like a tranquilizer and people just mellow out and laugh rather than curse and fight even if it is sort of stupid.
And that's what I like about it here. The situation I had was a very abnormal, isolated incident - I've only had one other, much-nastier physical altercation occur in CA, and that was down in LA.
I spent a chunk of my childhood on the West Coast - military family - and when we moved back to Boston, I almost immediately missed it and wanted to come back. I'm glad on the one hand that I grew up where I did, but then, I doubt I'll move back. Part of me would like to when it comes time for me to marry and have kids because I think Boston has a better educational culture and a good mix of traditional behaviours and liberal attitudes, but on the other hand, but I do love it here. I love the people, I love the pace of life, I love the opportunities, the landscape, and just generally prefer the way things are out here.
I took an ex-girlfriend who was a Bay Area native back home to Boston with me awhile back, and she was surprised at how people acted, how my mannerisms changed, and how she generally felt like she was in a different country. That's exactly how I felt when I came out here.
I originally moved to SF from New York city for a job (they paid for the relocation and such) a couple months ago. And man, its been a major culture shift which is ok I suppose. But also very irritating in a number of ways to a life long east coaster like myself. Almost to the point of making normal social interaction difficult because of over-PC ness.
"Sarcasm" seems to be lost on most people here. They all look at me with blank stares when I make a sarcastic joke or comment.
Say "thats gay" your called out as a homophobe.
People give you stares of disaproval if your the type of person that looks like to have somewhere to go, commitments to make, likes to dress up for business etc. Just no sense of working to "get ahead". What gives? Do people here just prefer others to be as miserable, non-goal oriented, aim-less and broke as they are?
Overall the people in this area seem to lack alot of aspects of character and tend to be very introverted and quiet. I also see theres less of an energy here. Everything from major stores to mom and pop shops to restaurants closes early and people don't seem to care. Even nightclubs close early (WTF?).
Anyways I was just venting. Personally I think the weather is great here, but I like the east coast better in terms of the relationships, people and the overall attitude of most people. I just gel well with folks who are more honest about themselves and know how to stick up for themselves without complaining or crying. Those types are usually laughed out of New York City. Its very soft.
How can people live like this day and day out and not go crazy?
/rant
The Bay Area soft compared to NYC?!! Are you crazy? I'm an SF native and NYC is not half as crazy as the Bay. The big cities in the Bay Area, in general, are much rougher places than NYC. NYC is statistically the safest big city in the nation. But then again, the Bay or any city for that matter is very safe and soft if you are financially well-off and White or Whitewashed. Why don't you try being a young male Latino and wear all matching red or blue through the wrong part of The Mission. Or be a young Black male and show your face in Sunnydale when nobody knows who you are. Either that, or try being a young Asian in South/Southeast SF in an environment overrun by thugged out Blacks, Asians and Islanders who will threaten you for no reason.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 12-14-2010 at 09:00 PM..
Reason: Inappropriate language
Political correctness is one of the most overloaded terms out there. People seem to use it as a stand-in for "I can't use a racial epithet as a perjorative without turning heads, and that makes me sad."
Yup.
Actually, that may more accurately describe folks from the Deep South than from the East Coast.
On the idea that we out here can't tell the difference between obnoxious and merely "confident": Those who I know who came here from places like NY and Philly are quite proud to be known as A-holes, which they report as being a quality necessary for survival out East. Also, for them, known as confidence. So yes, I will admit to often seeing grey on this difference.
I imagine there are some who seek a place with both more pleasant weather and less boorish humans. It's a right-to-left movement thing: If you continue going west (Hawaii), you'll find people so chill they make NorCal people look...almost miffed!
Actually, that may more accurately describe folks from the Deep South than from the East Coast.
On the idea that we out here can't tell the difference between obnoxious and merely "confident": Those who I know who came here from places like NY and Philly are quite proud to be known as A-holes, which they report as being a quality necessary for survival out East. Also, for them, known as confidence. So yes, I will admit to often seeing grey on this difference.
I imagine there are some who seek a place with both more pleasant weather and less boorish humans. It's a right-to-left movement thing: If you continue going west (Hawaii), you'll find people so chill they make NorCal people look...almost miffed!
Like I said in a thread a long time ago (maybe it was this one), if people think the Bay Area is laid back then San Diego would drive them completely insane. If that's laid back then SD is laid down and fast asleep.
As an SFBA native and a product of our reserved, pluralistic culture, I was at first offended by this thread but now I find it interesting.
My understanding of NYC and Philly types as described in this thread as being "tough", agressive and not caring what anyone thinks reminds me of how lower-class people are here in the SFBA. To be totally politically incorrect, it reminds me of the lower-class Mexican Americans in the East Side of San Jose, African Americans in Oakland, and lower-class people in all the lower-income, grittier ares of the SFBA; they seem to be intentionally provocative and offensive. They don't care if anyone doesn't like them. They thrive on it.
The question on my mind is- are most people of any economic class in NYC/Philly considered tough/aggressive whereas in the SFBA, it's mostly the lower class/income people in the SFBA who bear the same description?
It seems to me that here in the SFBA, 'tough' is coincidental with the poor while in NYC, 'tough' transcends class.
People in the bay out side of lower income areas are not tough, period. People can't even drive in the rain in the bay. Tough does not entail being a goon, its just knowing how to be a man. I can't tell you how many men I know in the bay area who can't even change the oil on their own cars or put on a spare tire. Its definitely a bit more effeminate/ passive aggressive than other places I have been, not as bad as seattle or portland tho.
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The comments made me wonder if the culture in California leans toward pacifism or just plain intelligent assessment of an situation. I am not experienced enough to gauge inter-personal dynamics in the workplace but I do know the streets and how to navigate around trouble. I think there is much more aggression in the younger people but frankly have come to the conclusion that marijuana smoking tends to mellow people out a whole lot. When I visited New York City for the first time earlier this year I noticed a lot more in-your-face aggression than what we are accustom to in California. People on the subway, at Coney Island or just walking in Central Pk where you would think it would be chill, were so much more verbal with each other even if it were total strangers. There was a hardness and edge that I don't really see here whether in Los Angeles or San Francisco. 
