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Old 02-19-2010, 11:59 AM
 
Location: 38°14′45″N 122°37′53″W
4,156 posts, read 11,009,296 times
Reputation: 3439

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Bizarre? Yes there are more physical limitations to trains here than say LI or NJ. But it can be done and is done. Manhattan is out of reach for much of the workforce but luckily for the workforce there, they can take a train for pretty cheap and still live in an affordable area outside the city.

Don't take the comparison so literally, it is not like the LIRR is some new concept of urban to suburban linkage.
Did you grow up on LI or in the NYC/NJ/Ct tri state area?

The LIE is not without it's serious traffic issues. The LIRR has not "saved" Long Island commuters entirely. It's not like people are commuting that far out from LI in the first place.
Plus they don't have Marin County whole heartedly against it. (it's closest equivalent,the Hamptons, are totally out of the way)
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:36 PM
 
Location: rain city
2,957 posts, read 12,724,336 times
Reputation: 4973
Default Housing Unaffordability as Public Policy: The New Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey

Housing Unaffordability as Public Policy: The New Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey | Newgeography.com



Unaffordable Housing as Public Policy: It is clear that much of the cause for the differences in affordability lies with contrasting public policy approaches. The strong intervention in land markets under plan-driven regulation raises the price of land inordinately. Governments appear to have, however unwittingly, established unaffordable housing as an objective of public policy. Yet despite this, there is pressure – including from the US Obama administration, to adopt plan-driven regulation throughout the United States, despite the substantial economic disruption (http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/barkerreview_land_use_planning_index.htm - broken link) that such policies produced in the US bubble markets. Besides making houses unaffordable for many households, this could set the stage for even more housing bubbles in the future.
If this trend continues, future generations will pay far more for their housing than did their parents. This seems likely to stunt economic growth and job creation, while facilitating higher levels of poverty and class stratification.



Severely Unaffordable Markets:
There were also 18 severely unaffordable markets, in five nations. The least unaffordable market was Vancouver (Canada), with a Median Multiple of 9.3. Sydney (Australia) was the second least affordable market (9.1), followed by Melbourne (8.0) and Adelaide (7.4). The most unaffordable markets also London (GLA or inside the greenbelt), with a Median Multiple of 7.1, San Francisco (7.0), New York (7.0), Perth, Australia (6.9), Brisbane, Australia (6.7), Auckland, New Zealand (6.7) and the London Exurbs (outside the greenbelt), at 6.7. Los Angeles-Orange County, which was the most unaffordable metropolitan area in the first four Surveys, remained severely unaffordable, at 5.7 (Table 3).


Table 3 Severely Unffordable Major Markets: Third Quarter: 2009



Unaffordability Rank Nation Market Median Multiple 1 Canada Vancouver 9.3 2 Australia Sydney 9.1 3 Australia Melbourne 8.0 4 Australia Adelaide 7.4 5 United Kingdom London (GLA) 7.1 6 United States New York, NY-NJ,-CT-PA 7.0 6 United States San Francisco, CA 7.0 8 Australia Perth 6.9 9 Australia Brisbane 6.7 9 New Zealand Auckland 6.7 9 United Kingdom London Exurbs 6.7 12 United States San Jose, CA 6.4 13 United Kingdom Bristol-Bath 6.1 14 United States San Diego, CA 6.0 15 United States Los Angeles-Orange County, CA 5.7 16 United Kingdom Stoke on Trent & Staffordshire 5.3 17 Canada Toronto 5.2 18 United Kingdom Newcastle & Tyneside 5.1
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:45 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
25 posts, read 47,038 times
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Um...I live here, and yes it's very expensive and in some areas the schools are not so great. The district we are in now cut funding so much...there is no art or music or sports (there are some sports at my sons Jr high..but the elementary schools are suffering). Schools were closed and now its overcrowded.

I know why people want to live here though. And, it's been expensive here forever. I can't believe people still analyze it and write about it. I really dont think it will ever change...Plus, you get paid more i this area, so the cost of living is higher, but most wages are too...now that doesnt mean that it's affordable in some areas, but you do make a little more out here.

We are actually moving out of state soon. Not because of this, but you do appreciate beautiful landscape and lower rent when it comes time to move! It outweighs me missing it here!
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:53 PM
 
Location: California
37,135 posts, read 42,203,740 times
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Much of the Bay Area is suburbia...meaning those high density, low cost places don't "fit" into the overall scope of the individual cities. But it's being done. Dublin for example basially sold their soul to developers on the east side and it's noting but a sea of sameness that, while looking ok now, will be crap in 15+ years. They are already going to bulldoze one low cost housing neighborhood becasue it's crap now...and will be replacing it with more low cost housing that will be bulldozed sometime in the not so distant future I'm sure. Some places have very old neighborhoods that can and should be regenrefied. Oakland has been mentioned but parts of Hayward, Newark and Union City are also pretty run down. These are all on the BART line too. However, there is only so low prices can go for livable homes since demand is higher than supply and artificially creating "affordable" homes via special programs (see "bulldozed" above) and what not hardly ever works.

I don't know what the answer is. The Bay Area is just always going to be expensive as long as more people want to be here than can fit. It's just how it goes.
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Old 02-19-2010, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,963 posts, read 18,496,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellalunatic View Post
Did you grow up on LI or in the NYC/NJ/Ct tri state area?

The LIE is not without it's serious traffic issues. The LIRR has not "saved" Long Island commuters entirely. It's not like people are commuting that far out from LI in the first place.
Plus they don't have Marin County whole heartedly against it. (it's closest equivalent,the Hamptons, are totally out of the way)
I lived in NYC and have traveled all around on the LIRR. I currently know multiple families that DO commute from as far out as East Moriches LI to NYC. They do that, so they can afford a 2 acre property with a 5 bedroom house for 470k. They have 1 truck to get out in the snow.

Problems or not, the LRII works for many families that are willing to live further away to have an 'affordable' large house.
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:29 PM
 
Location: NYC
1,213 posts, read 3,608,126 times
Reputation: 1254
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellalunatic View Post
Plus they don't have Marin County whole heartedly against it. (it's closest equivalent,the Hamptons, are totally out of the way)
Oh good old Marin County! It's not that I'm in a hurry to go up there every weekend, it's just that their crusade against BART cost the city of San Francisco a much needed second subway line.
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Old 02-19-2010, 10:20 PM
 
15,638 posts, read 26,251,926 times
Reputation: 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Oh I am fine over here on the Peninsula for now, however, it would be cool to see some of these up and coming areas of Oakland. Perhaps start a new thread and give us some locations? I'll admit I never get over there, but I want to take my daughter to the Oakland Zoo and Fairytale land so maybe I can peruse the area.
Oh -- the Oakland Zoo is perfect for children -- it's just the right size. Not too big so it takes FOREVER and some great exihibits just for kids.

We did the SF zoo a while ago and I was just numb by the time we were done. Too long, too big, too much.
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:26 AM
 
334 posts, read 1,067,222 times
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I have a family membership to the oakland zoo. Its a lovely zoo...perfect for a casual afternoon on a nice day. It is in the hills, and you can take a train ride which has an fantastic view of the entire bay area from marin to SF down to the peninsula. We love bringing our toddler there. You can get through the whole zoo in a few hours, then ride the train and carousel at the end. We love it! We don't even bother going to the SF zoo. Oakland is perfect with little ones.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
2,684 posts, read 7,382,338 times
Reputation: 2411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
I don't know what the answer is. The Bay Area is just always going to be expensive as long as more people want to be here than can fit. It's just how it goes.
There's a certain sense of irony of how much cheaper places become the further and further east you go. However, it doesn't enter anywhere near the realm of affordable until you reach the Central Valley (Tracy, Stockton, etc.), where the bulk of the Bay Area's growth is going.

That's the future!
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:06 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,659,938 times
Reputation: 23268
It may be the least affordable... but millions of people still afford to live here.

My brothers neighbors... a young family from Illinois moved here last summer and bought a home... they are both in their 30's and have two children.

At work, we always have new employee's from other States... they choose to come here because it is the Bay Area... most will only live in San Francisco even though it means commuting to the East Bay via BART for work.

Value is in the eye of the beholder...
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