Conservative Relocating (San Francisco: how much, unemployment, go bankrupt)

[user_id]

Originally Posted by TVC15;14889749
[COLOR=black

Sure because if you did then you obviously missed something! You have not made any valid points. Nothing you have ever said goes over my head. I think science goes over your head as proven by your remarks.[/color]

Sure it did, its still going right over your head. What did I miss? Did I miss that humans are descendant from chimps? That is completely false and ironically something you'd find in a fundamentalist publication. Did I miss that scientific theories are undeniable facts? Again completely false. You're not reading what is actually being said because you are to busy trying to pigeonhole me into your trite caricatures. Sounds like another group of folks I know, namely the religious conservatives you are neurotically fixated on. I'm not even sure what you think I'm saying...as your posts are so irrational.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

You're picking on the extemist aspects of conservatism and painting all conservatives with an awfully broad brush to make your point (aka "sterotyping"--something liberals say they don't do).

One thing you hit on was fiscal conservatism. I can tell you as a sociology major in college in the late 1980s and early 1990s all I ever heard were variations on the idea that socialism was good and capitalism was evil. Of course, it's never stated that bluntly, but there was a constant drumbeat of examples of how capitalism is bad and how socialism and/or more government intervention/involvement is good.

And how about the idea that abortion might actually be killing a human being? (I'm not giong to defend the tactics of the right to life crowd, 'cause I think they're lousy, but I think their fundamental argument is strong. It's fine to disagree. It's quite another to ridicule/demonize those who think differently).

Or the idea that single parenthood and divorce are normal and inevitable and cause little or no harm to kids (even though the evidence is now overwhelming that they do).

Forget Juno. Out-of-wedlock births are a national catastrophe. - By Emily Yoffe - Slate Magazine

Or the idea that government sponsored health care would fix all the problems with our health care system (ignoring the fact that we haven't had anything resembling a true free market health care system since World War 2---but in 4 years of college I never got that tidbit of info).

Amazon.com: Who Killed Health Care?: America's $2 Trillion Medical Problem - and the…

I was taught all of this kind of stuff in college, and this was at a relatively conservative/middle of the road university (University of Arizona).

And quite frankly, I think pretty much all the classic philosophies of all cultures point to a similar set of values that lead to health, wealth, and general well being. Human nature hasn't changed in the last few thousand years.

Amazon.com: The New American Revolution: Using the Power of the Individual to Save Our Nation from Extremists: Tammy Bruce: Books

Fortunately, I do see some signs of hope for the future, although I don't know if they will come about fast enough to prevent us from going off a cliff (socially and financially). Those involved in the positive psychology movement like Tal Ben-Shahar (who teaches a popular class on happiness at Harvard), Martin Seligman (University of Pennsylvania), and Sonja Lyubomirsky (UC Riverside) are once again popularizing what I'd consider to be conservative values without going to extremes.

Amazon.com: The How of Happiness: A New Approach to Getting the Life You Want (9780143114956): Sonja Lyubomirsky: Books

Amazon.com: Happier: Learn the Secrets to Daily Joy and Lasting Fulfillment (9780071492393): Tal Ben-Shahar: Books

Amazon.com: seligman, martin: Books

And that's another thing to keep in mind....most people who are conservative are not nearly as extreme as the examples that you and other liberals like to point out. I would concede that many conservatives do the same thing to demonize liberals (and the CD Forums are full of examples on both sides of any issue). The demonizing has got to stop on both sides.

Even some liberals are voicing concern about the trend of people becoming more exteme in their view points which they attribute to more and more people living in politically homogenous areas--a trend that began around 1965 and has continued ever since. CD Forums are full of people who fit their examples. See link to book The Big Sort below:

Amazon.com: The Big Sort: Why the Clustering of Like-Minded America Is Tearing Us Apart** [BIG…

Are you getting a cut from Amazon book sells? just kidding!

And thanks, by the way, for providing examples of your points. Never been to college [yet] but my assumption is that "conservative" values are viewed more in the context of religious belief rather than academic thought. But you are fully aware that there are "conservative" universities [mostly private and many affiliated with religious denominations]. But, I think you are addressing concerns of education in public colleges, right?

I can't really answer why things like abortion, single parents and divorce aren't approached from a conservative point-of-view [perhaps they are] but I don't think liberals necessarily promote these societal issues. I mean, liberals get married and have children with the intent to stay in that union. Why many marriages fail could very well be a subject that is thoroughly studied in sociology classes. But if the answer to these issues is to believe in God and pray then I don't think public universities are going to present that as an option.

If answers to problems mean embracing "socialistic" solutions [ie. social security, unemployment benefits, requiring auto insurance, fighting air pollution, building public highways, etc.] then ultimately the decision is to tax people whether they like it or not. And unfortunately conservatives tend to reject anything that means individual responsibility to the community. An example is the cry from libertarians to end social security and stop the implementation of health care. One libertarian running for senator from Nevada suggested that people barter for services [like give their doctor a bag of apples in lieu of cash seriously!]. I can fully understand professors mocking that type of thinking and behavior.

The thing about conservatives is that when they complain that their point of view is rejected or minimized they seem to forget that people come to conclusions through reasoning and then act on them. Do you think medical students should be forced to learn exorcisms as a way to treat a headache?

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by user_id

Of course not, because you just believe what you want to believe. You have never even bothered to read about political philosophy, etc. Conservatism has its roots in ancient Greek political philosophy and the modern movement is usually attributed to Edmund Burke. American conservatism is more so a form of liberalism (which has nothing to do with today's "liberals") mixed with some conservative ideas.

You have the internet, perhaps you should use it to learn rather than spread hatred towards those you disagree with. People should not be ridiculed because they think differently and sadly this has become the norm in some areas of California. The OP is going to have to deal with the fact that there are people in California, as yourself, that will pigeonhole her into ridiculous stereotypes and never bother to get to know her as a person.

You are writing about "humanities" and those courses are, naturally, taught in colleges and high schools for that matter. The study of philosophy is not a conservative or liberal thing. The great thinkers of all time are thoroughly studied but that does not mean we believe in the world in the same way that Greek philosophers did 2500 yrs ago. Sigmund Freud is considered one of the greatest researchers into the study of the mind but some of his theories are no longer accepted in today's world since modern science has helped us better understand and come to conclusions.

[Fontucky]

Originally Posted by californio sur

[b]"All four of the city's largest ethnic groups -- whites, Latinos, blacks and Asians -- are more liberal... than their counterparts statewide".

Except when it comes to that civil rights for homosexuals stuff.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by californio sur

You are writing about "humanities" and those courses are, naturally, taught in colleges and high schools for that matter. The study of philosophy is not a conservative or liberal thing.

Why do you have such trouble keeping track of what is being discussed? You asked me about the intellectual tradition of conservatism and I gave you a brief response with enough information so you could read about it yourself. I have no idea why you are yapping about "philosophy is not a conservative or a liberal thing".

Originally Posted by californio sur

The great thinkers of all time are thoroughly studied but that does not mean we believe in the world in the same way that Greek philosophers did 2500 yrs ago.

Do you know what the word "history" means?

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by user_id

Why do you have such trouble keeping track of what is being discussed? You asked me about the intellectual tradition of conservatism and I gave you a brief response with enough information so you could read about it yourself. I have no idea why you are yapping about "philosophy is not a conservative or a liberal thing".



Do you know what the word "history" means?

Please understand that what you are now referring to has nothing to do with conservative thinking. Where in the reading of Greek philosophers is the issue of intellectual conservatism? I'm sorry to be curt with you but you are really out in orbit now and are trying to interject ancient philosophers with conservative thought when there is no connection. What does Aristotle write about anything conservative?

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by Fontucky

Except when it comes to that civil rights for homosexuals stuff.

Touche! It was a wake-up call to liberal politicians to assume that Black Baptists and Latino Catholics would go along with gay marriage. In-fact, among Afro-Americans the whole issue of homosexuality is still taboo for the most part. Those are cultural things not easily changed.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by californio sur

Please understand that what you are now referring to has nothing to do with conservative thinking. Where in the reading of Greek philosophers is the issue of intellectual conservatism?

Please understand you need to read better. Again, do you know what the word "history" means? Today's conservatism has its roots in ancient Greek philosophy, its more modern form was not developed until the 1700's. But naturally you are going to ignore what I just typed and interpret it in some bizarre fashion.

Anyhow, I'm not going to discuss philosophy with someone that is clearly not educated in it. If you are interested in reading about the intellectual history of conservatism (and not your pathetic stereotypes of it) I provided you with sufficient information.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by user_id

Please understand you need to read better. Again, do you know what the word "history" means? Today's conservatism has its roots in ancient Greek philosophy, its more modern form was not developed until the 1700's. But naturally you are going to ignore what I just typed and interpret it in some bizarre fashion.

Anyhow, I'm not going to discuss philosophy with someone that is clearly not educated in it. If you are interested in reading about the intellectual history of conservatism (and not your pathetic stereotypes of it) I provided you with sufficient information.

For the last time, what are you talking about? The topic of this thread is conservative communities in the Bay Area. And then the issue has become conservative thinking. What in the world has history got to do with this topic? You do not know what you are talking about and never cite anything that can support your ridiculous assertions. End of discussion.

[TVC15]

Originally Posted by user_id

Sure it did, its still going right over your head. What did I miss? Did I miss that humans are descendant from chimps? That is completely false and ironically something you'd find in a fundamentalist publication. Did I miss that scientific theories are undeniable facts? Again completely false. You're not reading what is actually being said because you are to busy trying to pigeonhole me into your trite caricatures. Sounds like another group of folks I know, namely the religious conservatives you are neurotically fixated on. I'm not even sure what you think I'm saying...as your posts are so irrational.

DITO!

Very nicely stated by Einstein "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."