Meserhle Trial for death of Oscar Grant begins in LA (San Francisco: shop, license)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Are white people automatically from out of town?

No, but it has already been reported that the majority of the people arrested were indeed whites from out of town.

[ssmaster]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

I have been linking sources that show that it wasn't just "white anarchist wearing bandannas" causing trouble in the city.

Pictures are worth a 1000 words, do any of these people look white to you?







Looks like the guys wearing bandannas are black too.

I've read what's being reported in the "rag tag" eblogs like East Bay Express that you've chosen to cite, and I'm saying the REALITY of the situation isn't being reported. Whether that's due to some liberal agenda to try and not criminalize blacks unfairly in the media, or some other reason, it's obvious that it wasn't "all white kids with bandannas" causing the chaos. A lot of it was caused by black Oakland residents.

actually i linked to the sf chronicle ,the biggest daily in the bay area.

unless you have photos of every one of the rioters your pictures represent only a small sample of rioters and appear cherry picked by race.


you still have not linked to your source disputing many of the rioters were out of town anarchists.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

No, but it has already been reported that the majority of the people arrested were indeed whites from out of town.

I have no doubt a lot of out of towners were arrested, but that doesn't automatically imply that the violence and looting was only those people. That only implies they were the only ones stupid enough to get caught.

Naturally, residents of Oakland would know where to escape and avoid police, making their chance of escape much higher than out of towners. I'm not surprised that many out of towners were caught. They couldn't "melt" into the local populace as easily like these guys:

[lmk1707]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

No, but it has already been reported that the majority of the people arrested were indeed whites from out of town.

Yup, and there are also a few out-of-town black anarchists in the group, so it's impossible to extrapolate from a couple of photos as to where the people in them reside. The only reliable measure is the reports from OPD after arrestees have been detained and identified, which they have provided. Plus you (and the police/media) have made allowances for the fact that there were some opportunistic local looters, so it's silly to say that fact has been ignored.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by ssmaster

you still have not linked to your source disputing many of the rioters were out of town anarchists.

I never disputed that some of the rioters were from out of town, so why do I need to post sources disproving that? Of course opportunistic people from around the local area will partake in looting, it's free stuff!

I'm disputing the underlying point being implied by Oakland residents that the local population wasn't involved in the rioting and looting, and that it was only "rich white kids with anarchist affiliations", and that Oakland residents only partook in "peaceful vigils with candles and posters".

Obviously, the reality is much different. Seriously, take responsibility for what happens in your city or you will see scenes like this over and over again:

[lmk1707]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

I never disputed that some of the rioters were from out of town. That happens in any riot.

I'm disputing the underlying point being implied by Oakland residents that the local population wasn't involved in the rioting and looting, and that they only partook in "peaceful vigils with candles and posters".

Obviously, the reality is much different:

Yes, that's what was said, if you completely ignored everything that's been said. Strawman much? People in this thread, the police, and the media have ALL reported that there were opportunistic, primarily local looters involved, also. The majority of those inciting violence however were from elsewhere, and often began the storefront-smashing which led to the looting.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by lmk1707

Yes, that's what was said, if you completely ignored everything that's been said. Strawman much?

Yes it was what was said, so please, let's not point out logical fallacies where there aren't any:

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

It seems like they are just sheltered trustfund babies trying cause trouble without having to answer for their actions.

Originally Posted by UPT Oakland

They were overreacting like crazy about everything. It was obvious most of those "anarchists" were those ultra liberal spoiled white emo kids pretending they have a cause

Obviously, this isn't the picture of a "white spoiled trust fund anarchist":



As for:

People in this thread, the police, and the media have ALL reported that there were opportunistic, primarily local looters involved, also. The majority of those inciting violence however were from elsewhere, and often began the storefront-smashing which led to the looting.

Does that excuse anything? Just because a guy from out of town says "We should steal stuff and ruin your city!", does that excuse any violence that occurs from locals? I don't get your point. Being a willful participant in a crime, regardless if you're the mastermind behind the plot, is still a crime under the letter of the law. You're painting Oakland residents as willful zombies willing to do the bidding of people from out of town under command, how insulting is that?

[lmk1707]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Yes it was what was said, so please, let's not point out logical fallacies where there aren't any:





Obviously, this isn't the picture of a "white spoiled trust fund anarchist":



As for:


Does that excuse anything? Just because a guy from out of town says "We should steal stuff and ruin your city!", does that excuse any violence that occurs from locals? I don't get your point. Being a willful participant in a crime, regardless if you're the mastermind behind the plot, is still a crime under the letter of the law.

One quote from the thread: "I am dissapointed that the actions of a few out-of-town activists and opportunistic Oaklanders"

So yes, it is a strawman to say that people have not acknowledged that there were opportunistic Oaklanders in the lot, and their behavior is not excused.

Posting a few photos doesn't negate the fact that there were hundreds and hundreds of police arresting those who were inciting violence, and the police reported that most (not all) were from out of town.

[ssmaster]

Many of the most aggressive demonstrators smashing the windows of banks and shops were white

Read more: After dark, mobs form, smash windows, loot (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/08/BAFL1EBKII.DTL#ixzz0tD82soD2 - broken link)


this is a from the chronicle article linked above.

mr fantastic -site a reputable source disputing this if you disagree.

i am still waiting for your source for the $20 million in damages claim.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by lmk1707

One quote from the thread: "I am dissapointed that the actions of a few out-of-town activists and opportunistic Oaklanders"

So yes, it is a strawman to say that people have not acknowledged that there were opportunistic Oaklanders in the lot, and their behavior is not excused.

However the comments from Oakland residents are heavily swayed towards "white kids from out of town" than "black kids from in town", which shows it's not a strawman.

Posting a few photos doesn't negate the fact that there were hundreds and hundreds of police arresting those who were inciting violence, and the police reported that most (not all) were from out of town.

I haven't seen any major news outlets report that it was all out of town people causing the violence. I also have only seen small local e-blogs saying that it's mostly out of towners being arrested. OPD has an incentive to say it was out of towners causing the violence, otherwise it would paint Oakland in a worse light if it were found out that most of the looting and destruction was indeed caused by locals (which the pictures of videos tend to lean towards).

Also as I said earlier, residents of Oakland would know where to escape and avoid police, making their chance of escape much higher than out of towners. I'm not surprised that many out of towners were caught. They couldn't "melt" into the local populace as easily as these guys: