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Hi everyone, I was hoping to get some opinions/suggestions from the veterans of SV
I'll try to keep it short... I graduated in 2007 from UCSC with a CS degree and was lucky enough to find a job at a startup doing exactly what I wanted to do. It's a small ASIC design house that allowed me to do a lot of cool low-level [think drivers, firmware, linux kernel] stuff. Unfortunately now, four years later, there might be a need for me to look for another job due to company's potential failure.
My first question is how important is it to stick to one field/niche? I get a feeling from various source that it's important. My resume is pretty eclectic: I did a lot of graphics and web design until graduation [I have a pretty decent portfolio], than I have my current "low-level software" experience, than I got to do some iPhone and web service development on the side while I was at my current job. Last time I went for an interview I got a "Wow, you have a very interesting resume..." response. The problem is that I don't want to be doing the same thing for the rest of my life, software engineering is a very diverse field and there are a lot of technologies I want experience of working with. So is it really detrimental to my career if I'll try to get in into something different?
Another question I have is how reasonable is it to stick with only startups throughout your career? I've met people that stress that you HAVE to have that big-name company experience on you resume. But I have no desire to work for someone huge; the startup environment really appeals to me due to lack of politics, possibility of "wearing many hats", and being at the, or close to, the center of decision making. So for the most part I have been ignoring recruiters from large companies. Am I on a wrong path here?
Are you happy where you're going? Are you able to get jobs? If yes to both, then tell others to stick it in their ear and take a hike.
Well, about the jobs I guess we'll see... But I am happy with what I'm doing and the direction I'm going in. What I worry about is that my current direction might prove to be detrimental further down the line when I'm older; I'm in my mid twenties right now. So that's why I want to hear about others' experience, if sticking to one thing is what you have to do to be successful long-term than I'll do that. Unfortunately, our society is not structured so that anyone can pick whatever career that makes them happy and still be successful, in terms of paying bills that is.
I wouldn't call myself a veteran ('cause that would be admitting I am old ;-)), been here since I graduated in 2000 (13+ years in high tech).
I can't tell you what is the "right path" for you...everyone is different.
I can tell you my experience...I came to the same conclusion as you a few years ago.
Most of my career has been at the top high tech companies (at the time), working in a very specific technology area. I was bored, and felt pigeon holed...I wanted and was suppose to move on to something new, but was always dragged back in because of my "expertise". I did it for team...not that management care. At a review, I was told I needed to "step out of my comfort zone".
...And then there was the politics, ambitions (of others), self serving management, backstabbing, sucking up of my colleagues. I should've left much earlier, but couldn't. By the time I could, the economy took a dive, so I rode it out as long possible, and got a very generous severance package.
I was BURNED OUT...I was very seriously considering changing careers to something NON technology related.
Financially I was fine, which was a luxury not many people have in this economy. I traveled all over. Coming back once in awhile, talked to recruiters, did interviews, hit the road again. The recruiters who contacted me, were always for same technical area I worked on before.
They say that connections & networking is how most people get jobs ... but all my connections were still in the same specific area...and same companies! It was frustrating.
I wanted to worked for small companies, startups. Financial stability wasn't as important to me anymore. Working and LEARNING with people who are passionate about what they working on was important. I wanted the challenges and wearing "many hats" of small companies that I experienced when I started out. So I applied to places that were out of my technical area.
My friends were truly puzzled why I didn't even consider staying in the field, because I can make more money if I stay in what I already knew.
I won't lie, having the big companies on my resume helped get me the interviews.
But I stuck it out, and got the offer from my current job. Ironically, the same week, my old company came to me with an offer for a position with more $ and in a different area. (Which I turned down...I just didn't/couldn't handle jumping back in that much office politics again).
I am sure some people I know were shocked I turned down more $$ to work at a small unknown place. But I am happy (and it's not like I was getting bad pay, I negotiated a higher salary then what was offered, and was higher then my last job), the work is interesting and new (to me). I work with good people.
Unfortunately, the company got bought by one of the top SV company...much to my dismay (though I was glad it wasn't my old company!). So now I am back working at a big company again. Will see how it goes for now... at least it looks great on my resume.
Having said all that...it wasn't always bad at the big companies. Several times, I was in groups that were run like small startups within the company. Worked with some great people, had fun, and learned cool stuff. But it's finding those groups that can be a challenge.
Well, about the jobs I guess we'll see... But I am happy with what I'm doing and the direction I'm going in. What I worry about is that my current direction might prove to be detrimental further down the line when I'm older; I'm in my mid twenties right now. So that's why I want to hear about others' experience, if sticking to one thing is what you have to do to be successful long-term than I'll do that. Unfortunately, our society is not structured so that anyone can pick whatever career that makes them happy and still be successful, in terms of paying bills that is.
I know this isn't career specific, but it's related. It sounds like you earn a good salary. I'd say it's very important to live well below your means so that you'll have the flexibility and freedom to walk away from any job where you're not happy. Financial freedom is way more important than owning the big house and fancy car and various other "stuff".
I wouldn't call myself a veteran ('cause that would be admitting I am old ;-)), been here since I graduated in 2000 (13+ years in high tech).
I can't tell you what is the "right path" for you...everyone is different.
I can tell you my experience...I came to the same conclusion as you a few years ago.
Most of my career has been at the top high tech companies (at the time), working in a very specific technology area. I was bored, and felt pigeon holed...I wanted and was suppose to move on to something new, but was always dragged back in because of my "expertise". I did it for team...not that management care. At a review, I was told I needed to "step out of my comfort zone".
...And then there was the politics, ambitions (of others), self serving management, backstabbing, sucking up of my colleagues. I should've left much earlier, but couldn't. By the time I could, the economy took a dive, so I rode it out as long possible, and got a very generous severance package.
I was BURNED OUT...I was very seriously considering changing careers to something NON technology related.
Financially I was fine, which was a luxury not many people have in this economy. I traveled all over. Coming back once in awhile, talked to recruiters, did interviews, hit the road again. The recruiters who contacted me, were always for same technical area I worked on before.
They say that connections & networking is how most people get jobs ... but all my connections were still in the same specific area...and same companies! It was frustrating.
I wanted to worked for small companies, startups. Financial stability wasn't as important to me anymore. Working and LEARNING with people who are passionate about what they working on was important. I wanted the challenges and wearing "many hats" of small companies that I experienced when I started out. So I applied to places that were out of my technical area.
My friends were truly puzzled why I didn't even consider staying in the field, because I can make more money if I stay in what I already knew.
I won't lie, having the big companies on my resume helped get me the interviews.
But I stuck it out, and got the offer from my current job. Ironically, the same week, my old company came to me with an offer for a position with more $ and in a different area. (Which I turned down...I just didn't/couldn't handle jumping back in that much office politics again).
I am sure some people I know were shocked I turned down more $$ to work at a small unknown place. But I am happy (and it's not like I was getting bad pay, I negotiated a higher salary then what was offered, and was higher then my last job), the work is interesting and new (to me). I work with good people.
Unfortunately, the company got bought by one of the top SV company...much to my dismay (though I was glad it wasn't my old company!). So now I am back working at a big company again. Will see how it goes for now... at least it looks great on my resume.
Having said all that...it wasn't always bad at the big companies. Several times, I was in groups that were run like small startups within the company. Worked with some great people, had fun, and learned cool stuff. But it's finding those groups that can be a challenge.
Hi gnomatic, thank you for sharing.
Obviously I never worked for a large company, but I tend to hear the same story from people who do/did work for somebody big. All my friends who worked for Google, for example, have left years ago and surprisingly have nothing good to say about working there. And that's THE infamous Google! One guy, who is in his late thirties but wasn't an engineer there, claimed they have literally made him cry on one occasion because of how insensitive the environment was. Go figure... maybe he was BSing
I guess I have to see if I can get a new job with my current experience and go from there.
One thing I was discussing with my friend last night is how to convince an employer to hire you outside of your expertise. These days entry-level jobs are rare nor am I too excited about getting entry-level salary. So how can one gain experience in something new to get into a new field? My conclusion was that maybe joining an open source project that is related to the new technology, or starting some kind of a hobby project on the side, would be the way to go about it. Do employers value things like that or if you didn't get paid for doing it you are not good enough? It sounds like your previous employer was actually interested in transitioning you into a different area and without the entry-level title?
I know this isn't career specific, but it's related. It sounds like you earn a good salary. I'd say it's very important to live well below your means so that you'll have the flexibility and freedom to walk away from any job where you're not happy. Financial freedom is way more important than owning the big house and fancy car and various other "stuff".
Hi mysticaltyger,
Well, that's another thing, my salary is ok I guess, I earn in the high 60s. I don't know what's the average in the valley is, but according to all the calculators online I'm good 15k-20k bellow the average. I mean, partially it's because it's a startup, partially it's because we are not doing so great - there are people here who are working with paycuts right now. The thing is that I have a lot of freedom here, so to speak, and aside from being underpaid and the fact that we might have to close doors soon, there are no reasons for me to leave. So I'm riding it out with everyone else, trying to get the new project done and see if it can save the company. I just feel bad jumping ship right when the s**t hits the fan, nor do I really want to leave the company because of how positive the environment is here.
So that's the dilemma I have to deal with, I know it's easier to find a job when you have one but I also don't want to leave everyone hanging at a time like this.
But yes, I do completely agree with you and I believe I do live bellow my means. I rent and drive a cheap truck, but the cost of living in SV is out there so I don't really get to save that much.
One thing I was discussing with my friend last night is how to convince an employer to hire you outside of your expertise.
Crying.. yeah that happens, but it could happen anywhere...
The infamous...it's run like a college campus. It's not like other big companies. Many join right out of school. If they leave, I think they will have a bit of culture shock if they went to one of the "old school" SV big companies.
I think it's easier to go from "bad" to "good" work environment then the other way around ;-) Builds up a high tolerance for those absurd and insane requests.
The advantage of a big company...you could move to different areas without sacrificing seniority. At my old company , you still had to go through the interview process...albeit a less official ones (i.e. 3 interviews vs. the all day, back to back interviews that was the norm for external hires). Anyways, it was a brand new technology area that they were developing, so there were very few people who already had that specific technical knowledge. It as a senior position, they wanted someone who knew all the other stuff (processes, tools, network, equipment etc)..and can pick up the technical stuff quickly.
Getting a job in different areas...I don't think not having a "big" name is a big deal. If you can convey to them your skills that are transferrable to the new area, and that you are a quick self start & learner, you are good to go. It's the experience, how fast you adapt and how well you will work with my team that matters. The "names" don't impress me much, because I was there, I know the truth :-P And I didn't drink the corporate kool-aid back I joined.
But there many people out there who places higher value on names and connections...do you really want to work with those people though?
If you have the time and inclination, do open source projects that you find interesting. Never know what it might lead to, at minimum, you will get to learn something cool and new that you are interested in.
...The advantage of a big company...you could move to different areas without sacrificing seniority. ...
This is a key point^
I'll give the other side of the story from my experience. I've worked with everything from startups to fortune 500 companies. I found both to have their pros/cons.
The main problems I found with startups was the elusive promise of better times, pay, etc... when things really take off (if they ever do) - the proverbial golden carrot. And of course longer hours and sometimes quite a bit more stress. When operating on a shoestring, watching every dollar spent and hour worked (as in more, more more) can sometimes be over the top. The nice things were of course the obvious come as you are, play foosball right there, pretend you're in your college dorm, etc...
The main problem with larger companies can be getting stuck in a particular area (pigeon holed) and of course corporate politics. But the upsides I've found outweigh these downsides. some of these include much more working capital to Architect, Design, Document, Plan and Execute the software development life cycle vs. cowboy programming on the cheap. Financial growth opporunities are typically better including promotions to higher levels. In smaller companies they tend to be run by families and close friends who take the lion's share of the profits (benevolent dictatorship). Then whatever available funds are left over goes out to the rest of the common working folk.
If you are relatively assertive and good at what you do in a large company you can work in a number of different roles. For my current company I've been able to reinvent myself a number of times while my pay continued to grow. For example I started doing embeded apps on hand held devices for an IRAD project with a small team using Java and C. Then I moved onto a large project which was being rearchitected. So I got very involved with design and architecture, attending peer reviews, etc...
Then later wanting a change of pace and scenery I moved from CA to CO and took a position as an Oracle DBA working with space weather data. This was completely new, but very interesting to me. No cut in pay and the cost of living was less. So it was an effective increase. Eventually I decided to move back to CA (Monterey) and get more into Web Development, Web Services, etc... This time with an increase in pay. While here I began assisting in more leadership tasks and received a promotion. Overall its been really good. I've preferred working for a larger, well established company which did great even during the recession.
I also experienced the dot com crash while at the smaller, weaker companies and that wasn't so great, even though I got to go to work in flip flops and shorts.
Would it have been more fun to jump around from startup to startup and ride the funding rollercoaster more? Possibly. But every place has its ups/downs pros/cons. I don't regret working for a larger company at all. And they've never made me cry. Although every place has it's frustrating moments regardless of size.
It might be good for you to learn more from personal experience vs. heresay. I know the mantra in the smaller companies is all pretty much the same - the big bad large companies suck, then you're working for the man, blah, blah blah. I'm glad I didn't drink that cool aide. After experiencing both firsthand the reality I discovered was they both have their good and bad aspects. No place is perfect - surprise! Only you can determine which will work out best for you.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 04-29-2011 at 08:47 PM..
I can make a few comments on this. I'm not a SV veteran (I've been here 8 months), but I am a sort of mid-level IT person (Linux SA past twelve years.)
First, in my field, system administration, I have seen absolutely no importance to sticking with one field/niche. Every gig I've done has been different niches, different environments, different technology. Nobody cared about the specific technologies I worked with in the past; they were just interested in my ability to do system administration.
Granted, sysadmin is different than programming and maybe there's more of an emphasis on sticking with what you know, but I'd be suprised if it hindered your career to move around.
Secondly most of the IT people I've met around here have had real varied careers and have worked on a lot of different technologies, so I don't think you're going to stand out at all if you do the same.
Last, I think in Silicon Valley the decision to work at startups or established companies is a matter of personal taste and people who do one or the other are given equal treatment. That's the impression I get. There seem to be about equal numbers of people who just do startups as who just work for big name companies as those who bounce between the two.
Startups seem to be the best and quickest way to gain experience in new technologies.
Regarding your career path, I really think you can do what you want in this area and not lose your advantage. Just to give an example, I currently work at a small startup and we've got:
* senior level Operations VP who has done his own startups, had a high profile job at one of the big Tech firms, and now is with us and probably doesn't even need to work (he has done very well during his career in Silicon Valley)
* senior level programmer who left his cushy job at a large, name brand online presence to work with us because he was bored and wanted a challenge
* mid level QA guy who left a job with a large area health care facility, also due to boredom and he even took a lower salary here!
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One guy, who is in his late thirties but wasn't an engineer there, claimed they have literally made him cry on one occasion because of how insensitive the environment was. Go figure... maybe he was BSing 
I mean, partially it's because it's a startup, partially it's because we are not doing so great - there are people here who are working with paycuts right now. The thing is that I have a lot of freedom here, so to speak, and aside from being underpaid and the fact that we might have to close doors soon, there are no reasons for me to leave. So I'm riding it out with everyone else, trying to get the new project done and see if it can save the company. I just feel bad jumping ship right when the s**t hits the fan, nor do I really want to leave the company because of how positive the environment is here.
Although every place has it's frustrating moments regardless of size.
I'm glad I didn't drink that cool aide. After experiencing both firsthand the reality I discovered was they both have their good and bad aspects. No place is perfect - surprise! Only you can determine which will work out best for you. 
