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Mysticaltyger,
You are spot on. My wife and I were both born and raised in the South Bay. Concerning my 3 siblings and myself, one lives in the Bay Area, one lives about 2 hrs north, and two of us live out of state. Of my wife's 3 siblings one lives in the Bay Area, and the others live out of state. My mother in law and mother have all been deprived of not seeing over half the total number of their grandchildren grow up. We are done raising our children and make it out to California at least once and usually twice per year. Those of us that live out of state are not involved in tech, those that do live in state are or have worked primarily in tech. On my wife's side the ones who moved out of California , for various reasons, not the least of which was economic, are currently the wealthiest. My sister in law and her husband are looking to buy a place in the Napa Valley ( cash) but intend to live there less than 6 months per year to avoid California income tax. They currently live in the south in a state without income tax. I don't think my mother or mother in law have a clue about how the cost of living ( especially housing) has affected their lives with respect to their children/grandchildren. They are both so happy that they have made so much money on their homes over the years and they both pay ridiculously low prop 13 property taxes.
Thank you. I know I'm right. You know I'm right. But people the people who need to get it, like your mother in law, will never make the connection . It's frustrating .
Why do you assume that? Again, the salaries and opportunities are also better here, so there are folks in the younger generations buying homes... my sister and her husband own a beautiful house in the South Bay, and about half of my similarly-aged friends own houses or condos. I hope to buy a townhouse myself, but will probably have to wait a few more years for it to happen.
The higher salaries generally don't make up for the high cost of housing in most cases. Single folks or folks without kids who don't care about home ownership can make major concessions in housing without their quality of life being affected too harshly, but anyone who wants to have kids and be a homeowner at the same time has a pretty huge incentive to leave for somewhere else unless they are really making an income well above the Bay Area median. That often means 2 parents with 2 demanding full time professional jobs to get that above-the-Bay Area-median income, with no option of one parent staying home with the kids....Some people don't mind that hectic life, but I don't think it's that great of a life, myself.
For every geek making six figures in this valley, there is a small army of people that supports his/her exhorbitant lifestyle. They're just too busy working to bark on internet forums about it.
I wouldn't feel too sorry about those who work as waiters in popular restaurants. Those folks make $6k - $7k a month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixSomeday
I don't know why it's necessary for housing prices to be so high purely because wages are so high (like someone just mentioned). It seems completely arbitrary; as if those with the true wealth are trying to keep common people from saving too much money or something.
No, they're just exploiting an opportunity to make as much as they can. Pure capitalism. They could care less whether what our financial situation is.
The higher salaries generally don't make up for the high cost of housing in most cases. Single folks or folks without kids who don't care about home ownership can make major concessions in housing without their quality of life being affected too harshly, but anyone who wants to have kids and be a homeowner at the same time has a pretty huge incentive to leave for somewhere else unless they are really making an income well above the Bay Area median. That often means 2 parents with 2 demanding full time professional jobs to get that above-the-Bay Area-median income, with no option of one parent staying home with the kids....Some people don't mind that hectic life, but I don't think it's that great of a life, myself.
Again,
you get it! As a DINK it is quite possible to live well in the Bay Area, especially for two tech incomes, or one tech and one healthcare or finance job. It is families that share a different burden. Living in the Bay Area with kids is a whole different animal. Trying to find an affordable area with decent public schools is hard. Then the mortgage is so high and you are working so much that the parents can't afford to give up one income to allow one of them to stay home and raise the kids. You get in a trap, high income, high mortgage and high childcare, running on the hamster wheel juggling everything and just praying no one gets laid off or sick. I remember those days, very stressful trying to raise a family ( we had 3 children over a 6 year time span) in the Bay Area. We really enjoy our visits out there now, we actually have some disposable income left over every month to spend!
Last edited by WeakandDizzy; 07-25-2012 at 12:18 PM..
Reason: clarification
No, they're just exploiting an opportunity to make as much as they can. Pure capitalism. They could care less whether what our financial situation is.
Landlords care very much what your financial situation is...
As for capitalism... I don't agree it is pure capitalism... way too many restrictions on building, remodeling, rent ordinances and even rent control in many parts of the bay area.
The only reason prices are what they are is because enough people with means find the area desirable.
The prices were high in the South Bay 30 years compared to other areas of the Bay Area... it has been that way at least since the mid 60's...
My parents bought a home in Hayward in 1960 and my godparents almost the identical home in Santa Clara the same month...
Both homes were within a thousand dollars of each other 50 years ago when new.
Today, the home in Hayward is worth about 280-300k and my god parent's home in Santa Clara about 800k
Landlords care very much what your financial situation is...
They only care that you will pay the rent. They don't care whether you save your money or not.
You didn't understand what I was saying. Another person had suggested there was a "conspiracy" of sorts among landowners to keep the rest of us "poor" by demanding such high rents that we are locked into a situation where we are unable to grow our savings. I replied that this is not the case. Landowners demand as much rent as they can simply to make as much money as they can. There's no ulterior motive.
Quote:
As for capitalism... I don't agree it is pure capitalism... way too many restrictions on building, remodeling, rent ordinances and even rent control in many parts of the bay area.
That's just the result of government vs. business. Same old story.
They only care that you will pay the rent. They don't care whether you save your money or not.
You didn't understand what I was saying. Another person had suggested there was a "conspiracy" of sorts among landowners to keep the rest of us "poor" by demanding such high rents that we are locked into a situation where we are unable to grow our savings. I replied that this is not the case. Landowners demand as much rent as they can simply to make as much money as they can. There's no ulterior motive.
I'm seeing a lot of new investment in my part of East Oakland...
When home prices shot into the stratosphere around 2007... prices around 500k for 1920's bungalows or 1200 square feet... I just shook me head in disbelief.
Today, these same homes have sold anywhere from 80k to 180k and there are often multiple buyers...
I have met some and they are Mom and Pop investors... one is a school teacher and decided to buy 3 rentals for his retirement... another works a maintenance engineer at the local hospital and he is in escrow with two purchases...
They both have the same story... they were priced out 5 years ago and now can buy at a 60 to 80% discount from the peak and the rents have not dropped...
My family lived in San Jose and I was born there... we moved twice... both times it was because we could get more house for the money... once to Hayward and later to East Oakland...
We still have more house than my Godparents... although, there Santa Clara home has appreciated much more because the area is more desirable.
At least living in the Bay Area provides lots of options... we have moderate and even lower cost areas only 10 to 15 minutes away from expensive areas...
At least living in the Bay Area provides lots of options... we have moderate and even lower cost areas only 10 to 15 minutes away from expensive areas...
Eh, depends on how you define moderate. $280K to $300K gets you a nice place in most parts of America, with decent public schools, not a mediocre tract house in an area with lousy public schools. Places where you can get a cheap house in Oakland are places you'd never want to send your kids to the public schools and are generally crime prone. It's probably tolerable if you don't have to deal with the public schools, but as another poster said, for anyone raising kids, it can be a real hamster wheel type of existence, even for those who look good (on the surface) as far as their household income goes.
Eh, depends on how you define moderate. $280K to $300K gets you a nice place in most parts of America, with decent public schools, not a mediocre tract house in an area with lousy public schools. Places where you can get a cheap house in Oakland are places you'd never want to send your kids to the public schools and are generally crime prone. It's probably tolerable if you don't have to deal with the public schools, but as another poster said, for anyone raising kids, it can be a real hamster wheel type of existence, even for those who look good (on the surface) as far as their household income goes.
I would have to say public schools or at least the perception of them is all relative.
At the risk of bringing anecdotal evidence into the mix.... I know parents that moved from Oakland to San Leandro, from San Leandro to Castro Valley, Castro Valley to Pleasanton as well as the Oakland Hills to Orinda or Piedmont... all in search of better schools.
The ironic thing is Bishop O'Dowd High School in East Oakland has students from both Piedmont and Pleasanton...
Also, I know three Doctors that have beautiful homes in Orinda and pay to send their kids to Head Royce in Oakland...
Don't forget that Oakland has many Charter Schools and some are doing quite well and they are spread throughout the city...
Another friend actually sold his modest Maxwell Park home to rent a cottage on Thornhill so his kids could get into Thornhill Elementary... same goes for parents renting out their home in Berkeley and renting in Piedmont...
On the flip side... students at Oakland's Castlemont High at the top of their class have guaranteed admission to the UC system... even though, they would fall short of the top if they were to attend a "Top Performing" High School
My godparents son and his wife live in Cupertino... a very highly sought after community with very desirable Public Schools... they decided to Home School their girls and at 17, the oldest has been accepted to Santa Clara... go figure?
I would have to say public schools or at least the perception of them is all relative.
At the risk of bringing anecdotal evidence into the mix.... I know parents that moved from Oakland to San Leandro, from San Leandro to Castro Valley, Castro Valley to Pleasanton as well as the Oakland Hills to Orinda or Piedmont... all in search of better schools.
The ironic thing is Bishop O'Dowd High School in East Oakland has students from both Piedmont and Pleasanton...
Also, I know three Doctors that have beautiful homes in Orinda and pay to send their kids to Head Royce in Oakland...
Don't forget that Oakland has many Charter Schools and some are doing quite well and they are spread throughout the city...
Another friend actually sold his modest Maxwell Park home to rent a cottage on Thornhill so his kids could get into Thornhill Elementary... same goes for parents renting out their home in Berkeley and renting in Piedmont...
On the flip side... students at Oakland's Castlemont High at the top of their class have guaranteed admission to the UC system... even though, they would fall short of the top if they were to attend a "Top Performing" High School
My godparents son and his wife live in Cupertino... a very highly sought after community with very desirable Public Schools... they decided to Home School their girls and at 17, the oldest has been accepted to Santa Clara... go figure?
I can't comment on the specifics of schools since I don't have kids, but I do know that American schools in general are not that great by developed country standards...so an average school here is below average compared with our economic peers...so while I do see there are a few who are obsessed with wanting to get into the absolute best public schools, I can't say I blame parents for wanting decent schools for their kids. That generally means paying an arm and a leg for a house if you live in the Bay Area.
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. It's frustrating 
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