considering relocation to monterey bay

[Franklyn]

Wisteria said:
"I am not sure what your agenda is, nor the other guy who keeps posting about Salinas, but it is misguided to tout that city above others as so safe and desirable.". Well, my agenda is exposing ignorance and bias. And I don't mean to be unkind but in some ways you have sort of proven that point. Read my post again. The truth is some areas of Salinas are safe and desirable. And I don't know about any other guy. Sorry.

"To suggest to a family, especially with young children, to choose between Salinas, and say, Monterey, is just not right." This statement is overly broad and thus false. I did not make that wild claim you've read into my post. I said do some research. I actually went through the Salinas PD Crime Statistics map before posting yesterday. And I usually peruse the news in the Californian

"The crime and murder levels are much higher in Salinas -- and mostly gang-related. The problem is that the gangs earn "points" by shooting innocents, and they, quite frankly, don't even care if there are innocents nearby ... and now those on the streets are "following orders" to shoot and kill." A couple of misconceptions and problems here. The gang problem is actually a drug problem. Over which gang controls drug sales in the area. Its a competition. Over who gets to sell drugs in the entire county area, and beyond. So what happens between the gangs in Salinas affects the sale of drugs in your neighborhood, and in mine.

And the "points for innocents" thing is an urban myth. Not to be crude, but if gang members were better shots their battles might be more efficient and probably safer for bystanders. The truth is that shooting "innocents" brings on a heavier load of law enforcement, which is counterproductive to normal gang activity. Do the math on this one.

But what it boils down to is that a portion of Salinas has a dangerous and recurring gang problem. As does Monterey, Pacific Grove, Seaside and Marina. But probably not Del Rey Oaks. There are certain small areas in those other four cities where a thoughtful family would not want to live - nor spend much time. Granted, the corresponding area of Salinas is much larger. But it is a defined and identifiable space. So your blanket statement is too broad, imho.

The particular census tract where I live has lower crime stats than all but two of the same type of census tracts in Monterey - and mine is only the third lowest in Salinas. In my part of town people jog and walk in the residential areas at all hours, including the deepest of night, almost like the PG hiking trail. In the last five years - as far as I went back - there's never been a homicide or physical attack on South Salinas walkers or cyclers in this tract, but that can't be said for the PG trail. That doesn't make PG more dangerous than Salinas. It just shows that various areas of both should be compared properly. Other areas of Salinas are at least as dangerous as the trail, so should be avoided at odd hours.

Blanket condemnation of one entire city is just not accurate - that's what I'm saying. That you prefer another community if fine. But if your community contributes resources to the county sheriff's Gang Task Force - and many do - you may be wistfully unaware of what's going on in some of seedier parts of YOUR town.

"I am a mother and I would not live in a place where I had to fear for my child's life at school, walking or biking down the street, not to mention the young lady who had a fire bomb thrown through her bedroom window last week (it caught her bed on fire, but she survived), that was supposedly for her brother, who must be in a gang." Well I am a father and I DON'T live in such a place, either. You are not describing my neighborhood. We go for walks around my neighborhood all the time. Kids play stickball in the street here. The young lady you mention lives in another part of the city, one where I would not recommend living. THAT is the area of Salinas you have been describing. Please be less general and more specific.

And finally let me be blunt. About 62% of Salinas residents are Hispanic. I'm not, but I suspect a lot of the forum bias I see against the city is actually thinly disguised prejudice against Mexicans, etc. Not accusing you of that, but it just needed to be said. Exposing school age children to a rich ethnic diversity mix imho should be the goal of modern parents if they want to truly prepare their kids for the future. If they mistakenly think they are 'protecting them' against 'others', then of course this won't apply. Those parents are already spreading their poison.

What better place in the north county to achieve this exposure than Salinas? Maybe Seaside? Certainly not Carmel. Its just a choice. I have friends living in all of those cities. They respect my choice and I theirs.

"When Salinas can get rid of the gang problem, then I would also say it's nice. But until then, it is a main factor in sheer survival. There are enough problems in life, so why add living around drive-by shootings, and rival gangs roaming throughout the city shooting and killing each other, and a very real factor of your own child becoming involved in a gang?" Do you see the condescending tone of this paragraph? Its sort of like saying, "When Monterey can take care of its Sea Elephant problems in the harbor . . . . . as if Monterey could control the migration habits of those stinky - at close range - critters. The Salinas gang problem will be "controlled" when your neighbors - YOUR neighbors - [and mine] stopped buying recreational drugs.

Thanks for the link to the SPD. I might need to use it some time. [Okay, THAT was sarcasm. Sorry] Sometimes opinions such as yours can seem valid on their face, but after deeper analysis may prove to be unseemly. In my view thats the case here. But please forgive any false assumptions I've made. I do appreciate the civil discourse.

[Wisteria]

Franklyn: Sometimes opinions such as yours can seem valid on their face, but after deeper analysis may prove to be unseemly. In my view thats the case here. But please forgive any false assumptions I've made. I do appreciate the civil discourse.

Yes, you have assumed a lot. But that's okay, because it's only a discussion board, and it's easy to do that. I'm glad that you feel comfortable where you are. And, you're right, I probably am biased -- but in a different way than you might suspect. I work in law enforcement (but not in Monterey County, although, obviously, we have contact with them), and I also have a background working with delinquent gang kids. Working in the field heightens one's awareness, and sometimes we hear things that the general public doesn't. So, I'm sure I think about it a lot more, and in different ways.

And you're also right about the "innocents," and gang kids being bad shots -- that's part of it -- although there is another sordid part where innocents are actual targets.... I wish it were more an identifiable space, however, with the word on the streets, kids are becoming more brazen and it is not possible to point to one area or another as "safe," as there is overflow into what used to be considered "safe" areas -- maybe not as often, but it happens. Yes, I know we could get hit by a bus just crossing the street, however, if one has a conscious choice to make, I think that all variables need to be taken into consideration.

It is not just drugs. Drugs are everywhere. Gangs and drugs are related, but they are not gangs because of drugs -- it's a very complex issue. That is just a portion of what they are involved in. This is not a forum to discuss gang issues, and I cannot be more specific, however, there is much information out there for those who seek it. There are many groups working to divert gang activity.

I never mentioned Carmel, by the way, as a place to live -- that is a millionaire's paradise, and not for "normal" families.

I know that the neighborhood I live in is noted for being safe, and I know of quite a few law enforcement people who live in these mountains for that very reason -- they have kids and want a safe environment. When we go to the Santa Cruz Boardwalk, even there one must be conscious of colors they wear -- it seems ridiculous, especially to me, a Senior Citizen, but I even think about what I put on when I go down there. Employees at the Boardwalk have trainings about gangs. So, it happens in Santa Cruz, too, but on a much smaller scale. The Boardwalk draws people from all over the Central Coast.

If I live out here, then certainly I have much involvement with Hispanics, and my daughter also lived in South America -- so, that's not an issue to me. My only issue is with crime. If we were in another crime-ridden place in another part of the country, the demographics could be quite different. But crime is crime no matter where it is. And when there is a lot of crime nearby, I would not advise families to move there -- it's just that simple.

I thank you for your responses, and I hope this clarifies a little of the reason why I feel as I do. Besides, people are going to make their own decisions anyway...we all have free will. Glad to hear you are doing fine there, though. When it's a general forum, general statements will be made. Perhaps, as a resident of Salinas, you might offer specific neighborhoods that you would recommend -- that could be very helpful.

[Franklyn]

Thanks for the clarifications, and the discourse. I am retired LE and there are several other such families in this zip code, too. Including many Silicon Valley area officers who say they commute from here because its safer for their families locally. Also a deputy from your county who lives around the corner. But those are all personal choices and other factors, too, might be influencing their decisions. So that proves little.

When I was mentioning the "snobbish" attitudes and the latent Hispanic paranoia it wasn't directed at you, so I apologize if it came across that way. Several other posters had sounded pretty opinionated and maybe even a little pompous, and I guess that's what set me off. Mea Culpa.

Generally the area in Salinas that suffers the most crime is called East Salinas. But there are safe pockets even there. Next is North Salinas, but even there great neighborhoods exist. Portions of the downtown area are bad, but others are OK. However, this area has the fewest private homes, so is usually not on anyones "safety" radar. Most of South Salinas is good to great - except for a very small pocket near the community college where gang-bangers like to congregate. Areas outside of the city off River Road, Spreckels, and Toro Park are like other towns. None of them really have danger zones, and yet they are all considered to be "Salinas" - even though far away in the county.

Neighborhood watch in Salinas is alive and well. The local PD are really good. Their incident response times are acceptable, and they are quite visible in all areas of the city. My biggest knock on them is their weak traffic enforcement division, but that is probably just because of priorities - and I can understand that given the recent homicides.

One further comment about my neighborhood. A church-member friend, a local PD commander, couldn't find his way to our house for a party and had to call his wife, who was already here, for directions. When we ragged on him about getting lost in his own town, he said, "You don't understand. That's a good thing." Point made.

Thanks again for conversation.

[Unkllars]

My brother commutes to the Natividad hospital in Salinas from Hollister. I would say Hollister, Gilroy, and Morgan Hill are all pretty good public schools.

[aleigho]

Hollister would be a good option if you can deal with the commute. (35-55 minutes easy)I wouldn't suggest Salinas. All of our neighbors have moved OUT of Salinas to the safety and small town feel of Hollister.

[Franklyn]

Originally Posted by aleigho

Hollister would be a good option if you can deal with the commute. (35-55 minutes easy)I wouldn't suggest Salinas. All of our neighbors have moved OUT of Salinas to the safety and small town feel of Hollister.

That's a little strange to say. Two of our newest neighbors have moved from Hollister to our safe area of Salinas to be in "safer", more convenient neighborhoods. So obviously even Hollister has certain neighborhoods that feel less safe than others.

What is it about "assuming" that we forget?