Why isn't downtown San Jose better? (San Diego, San Francisco: tax, live in, legal)

[JohnSoCal]

Originally Posted by foo cities

According to Art council people, San Jose has one of the most vibrant downtown in the country. Congrats to San Jose, and I like to check the city out one day!

I really like San Jose but these Art Council people don't have a clue what they are talking about. Downtown San Jose is definitely not very vibrant.

[roadwarrior101]

Here are the reasons that I see it is not that great of a downtown (for a city of its size):

-Proximity to SF (SF takes a lot of the overall energy for the Bay Area; probably would see more in SJ if it were a stand-alone city)
-High tech hub - Most tech companies don't look for high rise buildings, but larger office parks
-Nerdy/anti-social vibe overall of the Silicon Valley
-Airport flight path - Prevents any buildings over 30 stories
-Chuck Reed - He doesn't seem at all interested in marketing to tourists and wants SJ to be purely a business city
-Lack of critical mass - They've built like 3 high-rise condos; not nearly enough residents here to make it happening and vibrant
-Lack of upscale vibe - There are some good restaurants, but the nightlife in general is not that great; not really the place of choice for the well to do crowd when it comes to nightlife

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

Here are the reasons that I see it is not that great of a downtown (for a city of its size):

-Proximity to SF (SF takes a lot of the overall energy for the Bay Area; probably would see more in SJ if it were a stand-alone city)
-High tech hub - Most tech companies don't look for high rise buildings, but larger office parks
-Nerdy/anti-social vibe overall of the Silicon Valley
-Airport flight path - Prevents any buildings over 30 stories
-Chuck Reed - He doesn't seem at all interested in marketing to tourists and wants SJ to be purely a business city
-Lack of critical mass - They've built like 3 high-rise condos; not nearly enough residents here to make it happening and vibrant
-Lack of upscale vibe - There are some good restaurants, but the nightlife in general is not that great; not really the place of choice for the well to do crowd when it comes to nightlife

I have a few minor quibbles with what's written above:

--I'm agnostic on the Chuck Reed comment. He also has a lot on his hands just trying to keep SJ financially solvent so it doesn't go the way of Vallejo or Stockton.

--The critical mass thing is true...but there would have been more development had there not been a real estate crash in '08. They will build more downtown for sure...but I agree as of right now the critical mass isn't there...but it is slowly getting there. By the way, they built 4 residential high rises downtown, not 3.


I agree 100% with everything else you wrote.

[cardinal2007]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

I have a few minor quibbles with what's written above:
--The critical mass thing is true...but there would have been more development had there not been a real estate crash in '08. They will build more downtown for sure...but I agree as of right now the critical mass isn't there...but it is slowly getting there. By the way, they built 4 residential high rises downtown, not 3.

360 Residences was converted to apartments from condos, he did say condos, though I don't see why it would matter that much if it is condo or apartments, there is a new high-rise being planned right now downtown, Essex has already said they are buying it, I don't know who the builder is.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by cardinal2007

360 Residences was converted to apartments from condos, he did say condos, though I don't see why it would matter that much if it is condo or apartments, there is a new high-rise being planned right now downtown, Essex has already said they are buying it, I don't know who the builder is.

Oh, ok, I missed that part. I know 360 converted to rentals...but they are still residential high rises nonetheless. It all contributes to critical mass whether rentals or condos.

And you are sort of proving my point about downtown SJ slowly gaining more critical mass with another high rise being planned. It will not be an instant critical mass by any means, just slow, steady progress.

[silverkris]

I'd add that the current cost of land in the area pretty much makes future residential development to be higher density - such as condos/apartments/townhouses. Downtown SJ will continue to grow in that area.

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

I have a few minor quibbles with what's written above:

--I'm agnostic on the Chuck Reed comment. He also has a lot on his hands just trying to keep SJ financially solvent so it doesn't go the way of Vallejo or Stockton.

--The critical mass thing is true...but there would have been more development had there not been a real estate crash in '08. They will build more downtown for sure...but I agree as of right now the critical mass isn't there...but it is slowly getting there. By the way, they built 4 residential high rises downtown, not 3.


I agree 100% with everything else you wrote.

Agreed about Chuck Reed having to balance the financial challenges in SJ. But, I'm just pointing out the cost that this has, in that its not really being marketed as a destination city. However, in his defense, this lack of a tourism draw predates him.

I do agree if the crash hadn't occurred, there would be more development in downtown SJ. However, the crash did happen, so we can't be talking about what-ifs. But, for the sake of argument, even if it didn't happen, I still don't think there would be the critical mass there to make it a vibrant area.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

Agreed about Chuck Reed having to balance the financial challenges in SJ. But, I'm just pointing out the cost that this has, in that its not really being marketed as a destination city. However, in his defense, this lack of a tourism draw predates him..

Ok, we agree on Chuck Reed. It's tough to do marketing when your'e in crisis mode. And yes, it's true..SJ isn't good at marketing itself as a non-work destination. I think that goes back to the engineering culture in the Valley. Not enough extroverts.

[quote=roadwarrior101;28481834]I do agree if the crash hadn't occurred, there would be more development in downtown SJ. However, the crash did happen, so we can't be talking about what-ifs. But, for the sake of argument, even if it didn't happen, I still don't think there would be the critical mass there to make it a vibrant area[quote=roadwarrior101;28481834]

It's never going to be SF vibrant. But it will become more vibrant over time. Several new residential high rises are planned.

[Billy Millennium]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

Agreed about Chuck Reed having to balance the financial challenges in SJ. But, I'm just pointing out the cost that this has, in that its not really being marketed as a destination city. However, in his defense, this lack of a tourism draw predates him.

I do agree if the crash hadn't occurred, there would be more development in downtown SJ. However, the crash did happen, so we can't be talking about what-ifs. But, for the sake of argument, even if it didn't happen, I still don't think there would be the critical mass there to make it a vibrant area.

San Jose will likely never have tourists, so it's not worth the time and resources on the part of the city. So it's a good thing they're not pushing that agenda, just unrealistic and Reed knows this.

Tourism, in my opinion, is the greatest indicator of how interesting/entertaining a city or area is. For people to spend money visiting your city from out-of-town speaks volumes. San Jose will need a monumental tidal wave sized splash to ever get any measurable amount of tourists. I guess anything is possible... I mean we put a man on the moon. But that big splash needs to happen.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

-Chuck Reed - He doesn't seem at all interested in marketing to tourists and wants SJ to be purely a business city

-Lack of upscale vibe - There are some good restaurants, but the nightlife in general is not that great; not really the place of choice for the well to do crowd when it comes to nightlife

It's primarily a business and residential city. Tourists are annoying, and we have enough people around here that don't know how to drive already.

If one wishes to cavort with rich snobs, there's always Los Gatos, Los Altos, Saratoga, and Satanic Row. Plastic people have plenty of options to preen and strut about; San Jose is better known for a more down-to-earth, real vibe. Sharks fans, concert-goers, and convention attendees spend a good deal downtown as it is. Lew Wolff building a baseball park for the A's would improve that quite a bit.