Why do Salaries in SV Suck So Much? (Palo Alto, Los Gatos: 2014, schools)

[blauskies]

Originally Posted by duffdog

You are right, but software people are easily outsourced. Its only a matter of time until expensive SW engineers are replaced with 20yr old kids right out of college working for peanuts.

It's already happening, also the China/India invasion has started to pick up speed, I get LinkedIn requests from Chinese and Indian nationals, probably 3-5/week who are attracted to me by my employer, headline and think I can get them a job. Many are educated in the US, typically with their Masters.

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by blauskies

There is no real money in hardware most anywhere it seems that compares to software, I know a guy I worked with in Miami a couple of years ago, Mechanical Engineer with good deal of experience and degree not fresh out of college, former Motorola employee, got a job offer with a start-up in San Jose $105K with $12K relocation bonus + stock options. He countered $115K but they declined and he didn't take the offer because after he ran the numbers, he was making more money in Miami. Company went under a year later and shuttered operations, so for him it was probably a good choice but I still think he made a mistake since opportunity is immeasurable compared to dismal South Florida. He told me Apple, Tesla and a few other companies hit him up all the time on LinkedIn for career ops and he declines. Told me if he was 22 and fresh out of college, it would be Dreamland and not a big deal to live in a one bedroom apartment or share a room at exorbitant rates and have no work/life balance for $100K/year but at his age now and current life situation, no thanks.

The Silicon Valley has completely changed in my 5 years here. I moved out of the city with my wife 5 years ago and was attracted to Mountain View. It had a nice downtown (still does), pretty good schools and seemed to be a family friendly place. It wasn't cheap, but was affordable compared to the city, with two good jobs. We were fortunate also to buy a new townhome at that time, during the downturn (who would've known). Well, in this time, the economy has boomed. It has been great for our home appreciation, but also has meant we can't afford to trade up in the same area. Sure, our salaries have increased significantly, but not to the stratospheric levels needed to buy a nice house in this area (e.g., in the $2-3M range). We have a family now and to be honest, as Caucasians who are not ultra techy (e.g., antisocial/nerdy), we feel out of place here. This area is not very friendly and its very transient. It is overpriced and overcrowded. We look around and even if we could afford a nice house, we no longer see the quality of life here as something we thing would be good for raising a family. Sure, diversity is great, but all Indian/Asian immigrants who are just here to get rich and not establish roots outside their own circle is not our idea of good diversity. So, we're moving to the tri-valley area where we can get into a very nice house in a great school district in a more family friendly community. People there seem more focused in building a family/establishing roots. It is also becoming more diverse there, but in my view, in a good way (e.g., more family focused). The Silicon Valley has just gone to trash, in my opinion and the only reason to stay here long-term is to avoid a bad commute. In my view, that's not a strong enough incentive when investing in a house for the the long-run.

[blauskies]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

The Silicon Valley has completely changed in my 5 years here. I moved out of the city with my wife 5 years ago and was attracted to Mountain View. It had a nice downtown (still does), pretty good schools and seemed to be a family friendly place. It wasn't cheap, but was affordable compared to the city, with two good jobs. We were fortunate also to buy a new townhome at that time, during the downturn (who would've known). Well, in this time, the economy has boomed. It has been great for our home appreciation, but also has meant we can't afford to trade up in the same area. Sure, our salaries have increased significantly, but not to the stratospheric levels needed to buy a nice house in this area (e.g., in the $2-3M range). We have a family now and to be honest, as Caucasians who are not ultra techy (e.g., antisocial/nerdy), we feel out of place here. This area is not very friendly and its very transient. It is overpriced and overcrowded. We look around and even if we could afford a nice house, we no longer see the quality of life here as something we thing would be good for raising a family. Sure, diversity is great, but all Indian/Asian immigrants who are just here to get rich and not establish roots outside their own circle is not our idea of good diversity. So, we're moving to the tri-valley area where we can get into a very nice house in a great school district in a more family friendly community. People there seem more focused in building a family/establishing roots. It is also becoming more diverse there, but in my view, in a good way (e.g., more family focused). The Silicon Valley has just gone to trash, in my opinion and the only reason to stay here long-term is to avoid a bad commute. In my view, that's not a strong enough incentive when investing in a house for the the long-run.

I don't know if I could handle commuting from Pleasanton to the South Bay, suppose Fremont or Newark would be doable. When you look at most people working at a lot of places, they are from someplace else and typically have little to no experience and young like fresh out of school young.

One thing that no other area other than the SV has, it seems there is not much of a negative view on job hopping, some people worked for 6 to 10 companies in 10 years, 1 year here maybe 2 at another and always land jobs. That alone is impossible in other markets and also probably doesn't look good to employers in different markets if you want to leave.

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by blauskies

One thing that no other area other than the SV has, it seems there is not much of a negative view on job hopping, some people worked for 6 to 10 companies in 10 years, 1 year here maybe 2 at another and always land jobs. That alone is impossible in other markets and also probably doesn't look good to employers in different markets if you want to leave.

I think if you switch companies every 2-3 years, its not a big deal elsewhere. It shows you stick around long enough to prove you can do the job, but are marketable at other places as well. Switching every year is a different story.

[blauskies]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

I think if you switch companies every 2-3 years, its not a big deal elsewhere. It shows you stick around long enough to prove you can do the job, but are marketable at other places as well. Switching every year is a different story.

Have you ever worked for any companies on the East Coast? Most tend to red flag you for even 4 years at one place, that also comes from recruiters outside of the given area.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by blauskies

... One thing that no other area other than the SV has, it seems there is not much of a negative view on job hopping, some people worked for 6 to 10 companies in 10 years, 1 year here maybe 2 at another and always land jobs. That alone is impossible in other markets and also probably doesn't look good to employers in different markets if you want to leave.

You have a very good point.

Two generations ago, if someone had 3 employers in 5 years, his friends & relatives might whisper, "what's wrong with Bob? Can't he keep a job?"

Nowadays, in SV if someone does NOT have 3 employers in 5 years (setting aside Intel & IBM & public sector), his friends & relatives might whisper, "what's wrong with Bob? Can't he find a better job?"

[buenos]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

You have a very good point.

Two generations ago, if someone had 3 employers in 5 years, his friends & relatives might whisper, "what's wrong with Bob? Can't he keep a job?"

Nowadays, in SV if someone does NOT have 3 employers in 5 years (setting aside Intel & IBM & public sector), his friends & relatives might whisper, "what's wrong with Bob? Can't he find a better job?"

2 SV hiring managers from 2 companies made negative comments about me having 4 jobs in 8 years.
Both of them worked at the their last companies for around 15 years.

[PhoenixSomeday]

Well, if internal employees are still undervalued when it comes to raises and promotions, compared to being an external hire at another company and getting that 10-15% raise just by virtue of the job hop...at least that's how the engineers I've known paint it. Sounds like most other businesses in other industries. It seems like a lot of engineers continually job hop and grow their salary until they basically find that point of diminishing returns.

[Wintermomma]

Originally Posted by PhoenixSomeday

Well, if internal employees are still undervalued when it comes to raises and promotions, compared to being an external hire at another company and getting that 10-15% raise just by virtue of the job hop...at least that's how the engineers I've known paint it. Sounds like most other businesses in other industries. It seems like a lot of engineers continually job hop and grow their salary until they basically find that point of diminishing returns.

I have also seen this as what seems to be the only option here, other than getting promoted at your current company. The annual raises are a joke and don't even come close to matching the increasing cost of living, if you are lucky enough to get one. So you hop...stay a few years until you cannot afford to at that salary anymore and hop again. I miss the days of employers increasing their own employees' salaries greatly b/c they want to keep them! I remember during the dot com boom in one year I was given two unexpected raises just b/c they were trying to retain employees and continuing to re-evaluate salaries to make sure they stayed competitive. Now that is excessive, but the pendulum seems to have swung the other way.

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by blauskies

Have you ever worked for any companies on the East Coast? Most tend to red flag you for even 4 years at one place, that also comes from recruiters outside of the given area.

Well, I've been recruited by several companies on the East Coast and never heard such a comment (have had 3 jobs in 9 years). Personally, I'm not looking to relocate to the East Coast at this time, so its a non-issue. However, I have also had a very good story to tell in terms of pursuing better opportunities. What is so difficult to hear about that? Those that think you need to be at your company 5-10 years to be a worthy employee are behind the times. Switching more frequently is not just a Bay Area thing (although its accelerated here). Its more common with millennials and Gen X/Y and will become more and more accepted as baby boomers finally retire.