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I don't think the OP was pleading poverty. He was just saying he doesn't seem himself being able to afford an ordinary single family home here on his salary, which is probably true if his salary doesn't go up by a lot. The $800 he quoted for rent also included his utilities, so I think he's living pretty frugally already. Rents have really skyrocketed over the last few years. Moving in with his parents for a year or two might be an option, however un-fun that may be.
Good point, which is a big reason why I don't see myself living here for much longer either. I mean, it takes A LOT of money to get even a decent place here in a decent neighborhood, which sucks. And rent is absurd, I have seen tons of studios going for $1200-1300 and one bedrooms for over $1600, it is crazy.
Edit: I wanted to add that my half of the rent is $825, not including utilities for a 2 bedroom.
Bluntly, 63K strikes me as a pretty poor salary for the Bay Area with ANY kind of engineering degree, regardless of type. Are you fresh out of school?
Personally, I'd consider your options:
1. If you are fresh out of school and this is an intro salary that you can expect to go up very quickly, maybe you stick it out. You won't be the first person to struggle straight out of school. If living at home is an option for a while you might consider it for a year or two - you will bank a lot more money that way and work down those loans.
2. If you think your salary is what it is and won't go up that much - get out. In my mind the ONLY reason to live in the Bay Area is because you are in technology or another field that will pay you such a large premium over similar jobs in other states that you end up better off. That obviously is not the case with you in your current position. The Bay Area is wonderful, and the weather is great, but in my mind none of that is worth the cost. I am here because it is best for my finances and career - the rest is just icing.
If you are interested in staying in defense look at the Northern Virginia / DC area. I am from there - it is a great area with a strong economy and a plethora of employers to choose from. Chances are your own company has a major office there and may even consider a transfer. It is a great area in my mind - winters are colder than CA and summers are hotter but compared to a lot of the country it is moderate. There are mountains and beaches with ocean you can actually swim in without getting hypothermia. Lots of young professionals too. Housing costs are not low by any stretch but compared to the Bay Area, they are a bargain. Other prices (gas, insurance, taxes, etc) are all noticeably lower as well.
I lived very comfortably in Northern VA on 65K a year with a single roommate in a 2br 2ba place in a nice area close to work.
There are other areas you could consider as well, but NOVA / DC / MD is one of the best for defense.
TL;DR: If you don't expect your salary to hit 6 figures pretty quickly - change jobs or leave!
$65K in NoVa? Maybe 10 years ago, COL is up and rents are quite high. Forgot about buying a house too.
I'm a Mechanical Engineer and I was offered 75k out of college in Baltimore, MD that was 8 years ago. With 8 years experience, I'm getting 95k now and the jobs I'm interviewing for are offering 105k. But I'm just one data point. If you don't believe me on my recommendation that engineers get paid way more than 63k check Glassdoor as mentioned before or take a look at this website which has a median engineer salary (this is for "all other engineers" - so not mechanical, electrical, aerospace, etc) as $92k. You can put in your zip code for more specific. I put in Sunnyvale, CA's zip code and got a median wage of $102k.
So like I said. I highly recommend you get a new job that's paying what is reasonable for your profession.
That's not typical, maybe with a Masters Degree, I have seen plenty of ME jobs offering the same or less in other parts of the world with demands on experience being quite high, just look at Indeed.com. Fresh out of school, $60-$65K is more like and I have even seen less offered. For San Jose, $75K is not a lot of money but for a new grad with a BSME it's not bad.
Just a quick search of Indeed.com for a "Mechanical Engineer" anywhere in the USA yielded this:
Most if not all of the jobs paying more than $90K say "Senior level, X years of experience and etc, experience often does not even guarantee a better salary some companies just do not pay well because of departmental budgets. I also think a lot of people working in Defense in and around NoVa are going to be getting hit hard sooner or later with the effects of the fiscal cliff.
A ME I worked with a few years ago just took a job in San Jose for $105K, he has over 15 years experience and they gave him a $10K relo bonus, he moved from the East Coast. I did not think it was great and thought that he should have went for $115-125K but he knows that once he is in the area the other jobs will pour in and he can move up quite quickly in salary. The only way for most BSME holders to pass the $100K mark is to move into Management, I worked with PhDs in Miami that were only getting $90-95K. A lot of it depends on where you are and how lucky you are.
The original poster just has to ask themselves if it's worth it to move someplace where the weather is crappy, the jobs are not plentiful and etc to see if the bump in pay is worth it. First thing fresh graduates think is the money, the fancy car, soon that will wear off though when reality of the daily grind rears it's head lol. I have seen this so many times.
If you want to make more money get a degree in Computer Science, a BSME degree is not in demand so much and the salaries are quite low compared to a grad going into Software Engineering. A lot of work manufacturing went to China along with the high salaries, Software is still holding strong.
$63K/yr is a decent salary for the current times. Your problem is that you live in an area (a big city) that you do not make enough money to enjoy.
This isn't your fault, this is just reality. 63k/yr should allow you to rent your own place and handle a car payment comfortably with a lot of money left over.
Assuming that your take home is 40k, that gives you 3300 a month. Even if you spend half of it on rent + utilities you still have $1600 left over as disposable income. Pinching your pennies for a little over a year would leave you with $20k in savings which is more than enough for a down payment for a $150k first home or something.
You should either try to improve your salary or leave CA.
Not sure which companies are paying the high salaries you are all quoting...my husband worked as an optical engineer in the Bay Area for years and with a BS and 15 years experience, the most he made was $95K.
I truly love San Jose and California, but moving out of state was the smartest decision we ever made.
Before a person considers moving anywhere, they need to determine if the income they are earning, compared to another part of the country will give them a better or worse standard of living. There are numerous salary comparison calculators on the Internet.
Example: My daughter is head of IT department for a major company in a city in Montana earning over $125,000 per year.
She moved here from California 7 years ago, was raised in Western San Jose Suburbs Cupertino and Saritoga.
To move back to the San Jose area the going rate for her position is about $170,000 or close to a $50,000 increase in salary.
Problem, for the same standard of living she enjoys now, she would need to earn $ 211,000 to equal the same standard of living. Her true effect of moving back to California (She has several offers made to her every month, including one in Austrailia last week), would be taking over a $30,000 cut in salary after the cost of living was taken into consideration.
Example of home price difference: Seven years ago, she paid $300,000 for a 3,700 sq. ft contemporary upscale 4 level executive home (no basement). Largest home in town, sitting on 5 acres, with her private lane ending across the street from the City Limits of nicest homes in town. Fenced with rail fence, and includes barn/stables. Never wend down during recession, and today worth $500,000. All free and clear with no loans. Made possible selling out in California and moving to where homes are cheaper.
What would a similar quality home cost her in western part of San Jose area if she took a job there and moved back. None of the employers can afford a comparable standard of living to hire her to move back to San Jose or California period.
That is why a lot of people have come to the conclusion the OP did, and are moving or have moved from California for a better quality of life. Plus they can get away from the horrible smog that drove my wife and myself away from San Jose years ago. Dr said move, or she would be dead in less than 6 months.
Before a person considers moving anywhere, they need to determine if the income they are earning, compared to another part of the country will give them a better or worse standard of living. There are numerous salary comparison calculators on the Internet.
Example: My daughter is head of IT department for a major company in a city in Montana earning over $125,000 per year.
She moved here from California 7 years ago, was raised in Western San Jose Suburbs Cupertino and Saritoga.
To move back to the San Jose area the going rate for her position is about $170,000 or close to a $50,000 increase in salary.
Problem, for the same standard of living she enjoys now, she would need to earn $ 211,000 to equal the same standard of living. Her true effect of moving back to California (She has several offers made to her every month, including one in Austrailia last week), would be taking over a $30,000 cut in salary after the cost of living was taken into consideration.
Example of home price difference: Seven years ago, she paid $300,000 for a 3,700 sq. ft contemporary upscale 4 level executive home (no basement). Largest home in town, sitting on 5 acres, with her private lane ending across the street from the City Limits of nicest homes in town. Fenced with rail fence, and includes barn/stables. Never wend down during recession, and today worth $500,000. All free and clear with no loans. Made possible selling out in California and moving to where homes are cheaper.
What would a similar quality home cost her in western part of San Jose area if she took a job there and moved back. None of the employers can afford a comparable standard of living to hire her to move back to San Jose or California period.
That is why a lot of people have come to the conclusion the OP did, and are moving or have moved from California for a better quality of life. Plus they can get away from the horrible smog that drove my wife and myself away from San Jose years ago. Dr said move, or she would be dead in less than 6 months.
I'm not disputing anything you're saying here, but not everyone has the same idea of what a good quality of life is. I personally can't imagine living on 5 acres and 3700 square feet and having to take care of all that. To me, that would be a giant maintenance albatross. Also, your daughter likely lives in a small job market where there isn't much opportunity for growth or variety in jobs. That's especially a problem if she loses the job she has...it likely means she'll have to move whether she wants to or not. Not to mention the weather in Montana. I could not survive a winter there and I am not exaggerating (ok maybe a little, but not by much).
As for the smog complaint...the air here is actually pretty clean by the stadards of almost any large metro area. The air quality has improved significantly since I moved here in the late 1990s. Anyone who can't handle the air quality here probably needs to live in an unpopulated area.
I will be the first to admit that CA is overpriced for what you get (even with the great weather, scenery, etc.). Even so, I think it would take a lot to get me to move somewhere like Montana. Not all of us are cut out for that way of life.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 06-18-2013 at 03:09 PM..
i'm not disputing anything you're saying here, but not everyone has the same idea of what a good quality of life is. I personally can't imagine living on 5 acres and 3700 square feet and having to take care of all that. To me, that would be a giant maintenance albatross.
no problem. 4 acres are pasture, and a horse('s) take care of that problem. A tractor with a mower attached makes quick work of the rest of the yard. And a housekeeper comes in 3 days a week.
also, your daughter likely lives in a small job market where there isn't much opportunity for growth or variety in jobs. That's especially a problem if she loses the job she has...it likely means she'll have to move whether she wants to or not.
jobs in her field are very plentiful and qualified people are short in number, and she gets headhunters trying to get her to move 3 to 5 times a week. Many from silicon valley and other places she does not want to go. Last week they worked hard to get her to go to sydney australia as an example. She occasionally does free lance on the side, and does work for companies as far away as japan from her home office at $400 per hour. With the internet, a phone, and skype she can work from anywhere. The only reason she does not go consulting and telecommuting full time, is she likes the interaction of working in her office. So she does not worry about a job, or having to move.
not to mention the weather in montana. I could not survive a winter there and i am not exaggerating (ok maybe a little, but not by much).
this shows you know very little about montana. The deep snow and bad winters you are thinking we have, are in the mountain ski areas, etc. Where the winters are like tahoe. Other areas get a little cold sometimes, and have very little snow and miserable weather. We are in the rain/snow shadow of the rockies. Redding ca gets a lot worse weather than our part of montana as an example. Hotter, colder, and more snow and more rain.
as for the smog complaint...the air here is actually pretty clean by the stadards of almost any large metro area. The air quality has improved significantly since i moved here in the late 1990s. Anyone who can't handle the air quality here probably needs to live in an unpopulated area.
santa clara county has an f grade for air pollution issued by the american lung association.
this means that santa clara county is very unhealthy for a lot of people. Remember, half of all deaths from air pollution occurring in the u.s. Happen in california. That is over 20,000 people every year die from air pollution in california.
a study about air pollution and mortality in the san jose area.
i will be the first to admit that ca is overpriced for what you get (even with the great weather, scenery, etc.). Even so, i think it would take a lot to get me to move somewhere like montana. Not all of us are cut out for that way of life.
$63K/yr is a decent salary for the current times. Your problem is that you live in an area (a big city) that you do not make enough money to enjoy.
This isn't your fault, this is just reality. 63k/yr should allow you to rent your own place and handle a car payment comfortably with a lot of money left over.
Assuming that your take home is 40k, that gives you 3300 a month. Even if you spend half of it on rent + utilities you still have $1600 left over as disposable income. Pinching your pennies for a little over a year would leave you with $20k in savings which is more than enough for a down payment for a $150k first home or something.
You should either try to improve your salary or leave CA.
$63K in Atlanta for a new grad wouldn't be bad at all, especially out in the burbs, rents are quite cheap there.
Of course all of your calculations take out the fact that most new grads have tons of student loan debt to pay back, also that $150K for a home in the Atlanta Metro area might be feasible, it's not even possible in most locations anymore.
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