San Jose-bound: Artist seeking the Silicon Valley dream (Fresno, Bakersfield: apartments, renting)

[nagleepark]

Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man

The 80k/90k straight out of school that you are referring to? Those belong to the semi-superstars. The superstars (think software architects, database designers, startup founders, IT consultant, security scientists, etc.) get $130k right out of school.

Stanford and MIT grads with top grades could get 80k/90k straight out of school at Apple, Google or Facebook. A savvy person with a MS or PhD could probably do it, too, even without job experience.

[ilkhd2]

Degree from SJSU could be very useful outside of Bay Area (because SJSU is respectable university), but I am afraid not in SF Bay. 60K for entry level job is actually not that bad, however I would not recommend to start your carrier in Silicon Valley, because competition is tough over there and expectations are very, very high; you'll be stressed.

[hubbard53]

My biggest argument agains your plan Is that you will depend on federal student loans to pay living expenses. Yes, I know, it's tempting to use the overage check to buy stuff...but that's the primary reason we have teachers earning $33k pr year yet owing $150k in student loans. It's lunacy to add to your debt just in order to live, especially if you don't have to (which you don't).

Your best bet would be to get your degree at any number of public universities and get experience before trying to make it in SV. Do what we did...be really, really good at what you do and have one of those "big name companies" pay for your move to SV and cover your housing and expenses

[JoeSV]

Thanks all for your replies, very much appreciated.

So let's say there is Candidate A: SJSU BSCS graduate, 3.75 GPA, multiple internships at top companies literally around the corner from campus under his belt, proven profiencey in half a dozen programming languages, strong portfolio and actual web apps built.

Are you guys saying that some gee-whiz 22 year old kid from Stanford will be chosen over Candidate A? I thought experience/skillz > school. Isn't tech supposed to be about what you can do instead of where you're from?

Furthermore, are you saying that Candidate A, with such strong credentials, and more importantly, work experience, would not get a top-candidate salary........because he went to SJSU instead of Caltech/Stanford?

I'm asking this because I've done a ton of reading and research and everything I've read speaks about the top-notch recruiting relationship between SJSU and the tech community in SV, especially in computer science. Also, with ruby on rails developers(no degree) fresh out of 10 week boot camp being snatched up at 85k+, why wouldn't a strong SJSU CS graduate with actual work experience(internships) be able to match or surpass that salary?

My whole game-plan is based on becoming Candidate A.....am i mistaken? overly optimistic?

If I'm singing up whiz-creek, please let me know

Career/jobs aside, I'm tired of the heat, humidity, and overall 'ambience' of Texas. Why stay here when I can "Head West, young man" towards the glorious Pacific, rugged coastline, and great outdoors weather that's the Bay Area

[Wry_Martini]

Originally Posted by JoeSV

Thanks all for your replies, very much appreciated.

So let's say there is Candidate A: SJSU BSCS graduate, 3.75 GPA, multiple internships at top companies literally around the corner from campus under his belt, proven profiencey in half a dozen programming languages, strong portfolio and actual web apps built.

Are you guys saying that some gee-whiz 22 year old kid from Stanford will be chosen over Candidate A? I thought experience/skillz > school. Isn't tech supposed to be about what you can do instead of where you're from?

Furthermore, are you saying that Candidate A, with such strong credentials, and more importantly, work experience, would not get a top-candidate salary........because he went to SJSU instead of Caltech/Stanford?

I'm asking this because I've done a ton of reading and research and everything I've read speaks about the top-notch recruiting relationship between SJSU and the tech community in SV, especially in computer science. Also, with ruby on rails developers(no degree) fresh out of 10 week boot camp being snatched up at 85k+, why wouldn't a strong SJSU CS graduate with actual work experience(internships) be able to match or surpass that salary?

My whole game-plan is based on becoming Candidate A.....am i mistaken? overly optimistic?

If I'm singing up whiz-creek, please let me know

Career/jobs aside, I'm tired of the heat, humidity, and overall 'ambience' of Texas. Why stay here when I can "Head West, young man" towards the glorious Pacific, rugged coastline, and great outdoors weather that's the Bay Area

Overly optimistic.

To be honest & speaking as someone who works for one of the local tech giants.... The Stanford wiz kid is probably more likely to land the good internships & graduate with some decent real world experience (plus the networking connections). And candidate A will be competing with a whole bunch of whiz kids and seasoned professionals, not just from the Bay Area but from around the country.

I also don't see many folks landing $85k jobs with just a 2-3 month developer boot camp certificate. I've never hired one, either.

[MediocreButArrogant]

Originally Posted by Wry_Martini

Overly optimistic.

To be honest & speaking as someone who works for one of the local tech giants.... The Stanford wiz kid is probably more likely to land the good internships & graduate with some decent real world experience (plus the networking connections). And candidate A will be competing with a whole bunch of whiz kids and seasoned professionals, not just from the Bay Area but from around the country.

Agree with that. The highly qualified SJSU graduate doesn't exist, or he's hanging out with Bigfoot and Santa Claus and hasn't been spotted.

During the dot-com bubble I and my employer hired a lot of unqualified candidates. I personally hired a couple SDSU grads (maybe 7 years out of school). They had mediocre intellects. As soon as things headed south I canned them. Many other managers at my company made similar hiring mistakes. The ones we canned were easily able to find employment elsewhere, albeit at lesser employers.

There's absolutely no reason to take a chance on an new SJSU graduate for a developer position when we can recruit at MIT, CMU, Stanford, Cal, U of W, etc. We do hire SJSU grads for QE positions, and if they're good, they might eventually move into a developer or management position.

[krudmonk]

What a dehumanizing culture.

[nagleepark]

Originally Posted by Wry_Martini

To be honest & speaking as someone who works for one of the local tech giants.... The Stanford wiz kid is probably more likely to land the good internships & graduate with some decent real world experience (plus the networking connections). And candidate A will be competing with a whole bunch of whiz kids and seasoned professionals, not just from the Bay Area but from around the country.

I agree.

Originally Posted by MediocreButArrogant

There's absolutely no reason to take a chance on an new SJSU graduate for a developer position when we can recruit at MIT, CMU, Stanford, Cal, U of W, etc. We do hire SJSU grads for QE positions, and if they're good, they might eventually move into a developer or management position.

I agree that this reasoning is widely believed and spoken and will impact the careers of SJSU grads. I also think that it is pure bigoted nonsense. And, no, I didn't go to SJSU, never considered going to SJSU and have no reason to defend SJSU, other than to call out a very stupid and baseless prejudice that is parroted all the time by the large multitude of the dim bulbs who live in the Valley.

There is a certain profile that the tech giants seek which SJSU grads don't fit into.

[bobby_guz_man]

As an SJSU alum, I don't have a problem with people preferring to hire other folks over me because of where I go to school. It's just a preference, and it is what it is.

If I wanted better "treatment", I would have worked harder in high school and got accepted to a better, more prestigious university.

I am happy with the education that I got at SJSU. I graduated in 3 years with no student loans or debts of any kind, and landed a job at 21 years old doing system administration work at a small start-up with livable wage. Eventually I jumped ships a few times and am currently working for one of the big boys in the Bay as QA, with more-than-decent wages.

SJSU served its purpose well. It's a very good school with strong engineering pedigree that provides a large population of "worker bees" for the tech field. You think a software architect wants to be bothered with mundane coding everyday? That's for the worker bees, and that's where schools like SJSU, SDSU, and Cal Poly comes in.

My friend got a BS in CS at Cal, also in 3 years. He jumped ship a few times and his wage, as a senior developer, is obviously way way above mine. He's that "whiz kid" we talk about here.

When it comes time for him to go back for his Master in CS, guess where he went? When we asked why he picked SJSU for his Master's, his answer was simple: "I'm too damn good now that I don't give a **** about where the school is located".

[nagleepark]

Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man

SJSU served its purpose well. It's a very good school with strong engineering pedigree that provides a large population of "worker bees" for the tech field. You think a software architect wants to be bothered with mundane coding everyday? That's for the worker bees, and that's where schools like SJSU, SDSU, and Cal Poly comes in.

This is what I call "fantasy economics". This is how community college professors imagine the industry works, not how it actually works. I caution JoeSV to understand that a 4-year SJSU degree is a bet with no guarantees. He might land a job (maybe something better than your theory implies) or he might end up unemployed for a year, get rusty, forget what he learned and never get a chance to use his degree.