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Old 09-17-2013, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,792,188 times
Reputation: 15837

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixSomeday View Post
... That's ignorant. Please explain how it's trolling. I'm saying that it's sad that profit is the only thing that drives people these days, and in a detrimentally aggressive manner. I'm curious as to why. I'm talking about the really low, down deep, rock bottom root cause of its pursuit. On an individual basis; not something generic and ethereal like "it's our right," or "because we can." I mean really why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by otterprods View Post
Don't you know?... Anytime you disagree with someone, that's trolling? Actually, people calling other people trolls for having a strong opinion is the more trollish behavior, IMO.

I could tell you the answer to that but I don't think you'll like it.
This is a thread about rent control in Sunnyvale. PhoenixSomeday, you launched into a discussion of the profit motive in a highly negative way. It is not merely off topic (e.g., "How 'bout them Niners?") but is crafted to elicit an online argument about the nature of a market economy to allocate scarce resources and, well, you just don't like the outcome of it.

If you care to have an intelligent discussion about it, join me over in the Economics forum. If you prefer to just regurgitate Rachel Maddow, join me over in the Politics forum.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Colorado
2,483 posts, read 4,353,380 times
Reputation: 2685
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
This is a thread about rent control in Sunnyvale. PhoenixSomeday, you launched into a discussion of the profit motive in a highly negative way. It is not merely off topic (e.g., "How 'bout them Niners?") but is crafted to elicit an online argument about the nature of a market economy to allocate scarce resources and, well, you just don't like the outcome of it.

If you care to have an intelligent discussion about it, join me over in the Economics forum. If you prefer to just regurgitate Rachel Maddow, join me over in the Politics forum.
Profit motive has plenty to do with rent control. And you only saw it as 'crafted to elicit an online argument' because it apparently riled you up. I didn't see it that way at all.

Verdict: Not Trolling
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:02 PM
 
2,552 posts, read 2,448,617 times
Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
OK. My bad.

I'm a landlord -- I own both single family homes and condos that I rent out. I benefit from government restriction of development.

I'm in favor of less restrictive development policies -- it would be difficult to find anyone who disagrees with the widespread conclusion that we have a housing shortage compared to demand. The community needs more housing.

At the same time, most people also would say we have too much traffic -- and more housing means more cars and more congestion. Since roads are saturated during commute hours, we know that adding more cars slows down everyone, and we know it slows faster than a linear relationship to the number of cars added or the number of total cars on the road. Thus, adding even a few cars makes everyone else's life miserable.

Add in impending water shortages. Drive by any of the areas reservoirs and it is shocking at how low they are.

At some point, it probably is reasonable to say "enough." At some point, it probably is reasonable to say we don't have road capacity or water capacity or school capacity or other public services capacity to allow more development. When do we hit that point? Some say we already have hit that point.
Well, we get these kind of disconnects between demand and supply when the government arbitrarily (not truly, but it always feels arbitrary) set capacity, directly or indirectly. The reasonable way to say enough, instead, is pricing.

We, for instance, under-price our roads. The price of access for any given user at the time of use is, effectively, $0. The result is over-usage. And, because the price is 0, we have to use other metrics to judge the value of going somewhere by a route at any given moment: time and frustration.

We also under-price our water. We use a lot of it, and most of that use is wasteful. Think about the toilet. Low flush or not, we're still throwing clean, drinkable water straight down the drain. Or, there's the amount of drinkable water that gets dumped on to lawns.

The true problem isn't the amount of resources, but how we use them. Right now, we use them poorly, and are thus faced with the threat of an upper bound.

This is a long way of saying restrictive zoning is not a good solution; it's an ineffective solution to an artificial problem.
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:40 AM
 
1 posts, read 618 times
Reputation: 10
From bottom of page 2

Heidi60,

spoken like a true land owner looking to take advantage of a bad situation..
apologies for sounding terse, but are you able to take advantage off all the Cupertino has to offer on the back's of your tenants? Or are you an Exec. at Apple, thus not requiring the extra income from your propperties?
so many questions, no answers
thank you for your time, my sincerest apologies for the negative tone of this posting.
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:43 AM
 
1,696 posts, read 2,847,628 times
Reputation: 1110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewix View Post
From bottom of page 2

Heidi60,

spoken like a true land owner looking to take advantage of a bad situation..
apologies for sounding terse, but are you able to take advantage off all the Cupertino has to offer on the back's of your tenants? Or are you an Exec. at Apple, thus not requiring the extra income from your propperties?
so many questions, no answers
thank you for your time, my sincerest apologies for the negative tone of this posting.
Sorry mang, I'm gonna have to defend Heidi60's post. Capitalist society, all landlords for themselves, all tenants for themselves.

This is an expensive area to live in. Here, you EARN your living/housing, nobody is going to give anything to you. You can't handle it, then move on out and make space for the ones who do.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Colorado
2,483 posts, read 4,353,380 times
Reputation: 2685
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man View Post
Here, you EARN your living/housing, nobody is going to give anything to you. You can't handle it, then move on out and make space for the ones who do.
I'm not sure I'd use the word EARN because I know plenty of people who didn't get all their cash by earning it. I also know people who have worked hard and never had a lot to show for it due to life circumstances. But I agree that if you're living in the Bay Area you just need to accept that housing and some other things cost a lot there and do what you can to get yourself into a sector that pays adequately if you want to stay. More importantly, the only real rent control is your right to move out of (or not move into) a place if you think the price is too high. If you don't like it, then the right thing is to move somewhere where it's not as high. That's what I did. 1200 miles away. There are some things I miss about living there (not many though) and I like it here but even if I didn't at least I can say that I controlled my own rental situation and got out of it rather than asking some gov't entity to do it for me.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:45 AM
 
30,860 posts, read 36,771,477 times
Reputation: 34399
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man View Post
At least we can all agree on some points:

1) We need more housing as a better way to make things A BIT more affordable. And newer housing should be predominantly high-density, multi-family housing as a means to both increase housing and preserving as much of our pristine land as we can.

2) We all can agree that San Jose/South Bay can do better with its density. I prefer the density to approach Oakland's. I DO NOT want SF or NYC, or even Chicago's and Philadelphia's level of density. No thanks. If I want that, I'll just move there. I ride bikes AND I drive cars. I like to be able to do both in San Jose and the South Bay.
Yes, I agree with both points.
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Old 03-30-2014, 03:26 AM
 
1,696 posts, read 2,847,628 times
Reputation: 1110
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Yes, I agree with both points.
Thanks! But this is why we will never be politicians or movers/shakers in the area; we make too much sense
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:43 AM
 
Location: California
6,408 posts, read 7,611,044 times
Reputation: 13942
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man View Post
Sorry mang, I'm gonna have to defend Heidi60's post. Capitalist society, all landlords for themselves, all tenants for themselves.

This is an expensive area to live in. Here, you EARN your living/housing, nobody is going to give anything to you. You can't handle it, then move on out and make space for the ones who do.

Life if full of choices; live in the Valley and have great weather and high rent or move on to a lower rent area of California. I don't have everything I want and neither will most people. If you want to live here, there is a price to pay and choices to make. It is the ageless supply and demand. The landlords will charge what they can get and tenants willl only pay what they can afford, if it isn't a match then simply move on as landlords don't provide public housing.

Anyone living here knows what the high increase in forgeign workers has done to the housing and rental market by people who have no long term interest in our area. San Francisco residents are complaining about people being bused from the City to work which is also driving up their costs.
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