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Old 02-23-2008, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
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Quote:
Stinkybrain: I totally agree with you about the hostile, unfriendly vibe of downtown San Jose!!! I went down there for the BodyWorlds exhibit at the Tech Museum, walked around the area and had dinner, etc. And I started feeling a little self-conscious and out of place because people on the street seemed to stare too much, in a hard way, without smiling, as if they were analyzing me or something. And it DID feel racist, though nothing happened, of course. It's just a vibe I got from the white folk I passed by, as if they came in from a rural town outside of San Jose, for probably a convention, sport event, or something. There's so many events held downtown that I bet most of the people are not from San Jose.

And Alexus might be on to something when he described it as cowtown. I lived in Austin for 10 years and it reminded me of Austin. I know people love Austin but it was just a very small town pre-1980's that boomed into the countryside because of IBM, etc. Austin is NOT comfortable for Asians.
This has got to be a troll -- you've got to be kidding me! If you are Asian, and say that San Jose is unfriendly to Asians, you're trolling. Do you realize that of all the California colleges that San Jose State has the largest Asian population -- not even San Francisco is higher!!

The population in San Jose is nearly 1/3 Asian!! Excuse me -- unfriendly toward Asians???

San Jose is categorized as a "city" because of population -- but it is more like a big suburb. It has a very suburbanish feel to it. No, it is not San Francisco, and it is not San Diego, nor is it even close to New York!

It's not an exciting city, but it is a nice city. I don't think San Jose is even trying to be a San Francisco, an Austin or a San Diego, or even a New York (which it will never be). It is just itself. For Heaven's sake, just accept it for what it is. It is not a spinning city, it is a quiet laid-back town, classified as a city because of the population. You can find plenty to do, but it's not going to be in-your-face like other major cities. Deal with it.

As for Asians, I'm stunned that you would even write something like you did. It defies logic. Maybe it is you as an individual -- it is not a racist thing. You're way off-base there. Take a look at the stats and see why you seem like a troll. Thanks.

Quote:
San Jose State University students (SJSU being in downtown San Jose):
Student Body (Fall 2006)
Total Student Population
(29,604 students)
Breakdown of Full-Time Undergraduates:

African American 963
American Indian 73
Asian American 6,317
Caucasian 4,429
Hispanic American 2,795
International 753
Not Specified 1,859
Male 8,405
Female 8,784
So, the majority race at San Jose State is: ta, ta....ASIAN!

Quote:
Ethnic breakdown of San Jose:
Race
White 425017 47.49%
Black or African American 31349 3.5%
Hispanic or Latino(of any race) 269989 30.17%
American Indian and Alaska Native 6865 0.77%

Asian 240375 26.86%
Asian indian 26606 2.97%
Chinese 51109 5.71%
Filipino 48149 5.38%
Japanese 11484 1.28%
Korean 9425 1.05%
Vietnamese 78842 8.81%
Other Asian 14760 1.65%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander 3584 0.4%
Native Hawaiian 624 0.07%
Guamanian or Chamorro 675 0.08%
Samoan 1417 0.16%
Other Pacific Islander 868 0.1%
Some other race 142691 15.94%
So, excuse me if I think you're being paranoid, but the reality just doesn't prove it. Sorry.

Last edited by Wisteria; 02-23-2008 at 12:53 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 02-23-2008, 04:46 PM
 
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Wisteria, you're being a total suppressive ass. Sorry my opinions offend you, but tough! For one thing, I said *downtown* San Jose was like that, not any other part of it. And you can't prove or disprove a vibe by numbers/stats. It's just a gut feeling of what's acceptable or not in an area. Kinda like when you go to an upscale outdoor mall, you have to dress a little better or you feel a little out of place.

There are other places on the penninsula that defy stats too. Like, why is it when I go to Pacifica, I get a rural vibe there too? It's down the hill from one of the most densely populated areas in the bay, but every time I go to Pacifica, I feel like I just left the Bay Area and ended up in a small town in the middle of nowhere! And I feel an anti-Asian vibe there too, but it's so extremely close to Daly City! Almost like highway 1 is the railroad tracks. East of 1 is asian, West of 1 is white, as if the white people in Pacifica have to hold the line before Asians take over Pacifica too. (That last comment was probably a little too blunt for most people, but it summed up the vibe well from my point of view.) But everyone, of course, is perfectly nice because people are nice in general. These are just very low current, subtle vibes. Hardly of any significance, really. Nothing to start trashing me for, Wisteria!
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:00 PM
 
Location: yeah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
San Jose is categorized as a "city" because of population -- but it is more like a big suburb. It has a very suburbanish feel to it.

You can find plenty to do, but it's not going to be in-your-face like other major cities.
Don't those two kinda negate each other? A suburb does not have much to do. The resemblance is strong, but largely superficial. Much of it looks suburban, but hardly operates as such.
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
This has got to be a troll -- you've got to be kidding me! If you are Asian, and say that San Jose is unfriendly to Asians, you're trolling. Do you realize that of all the California colleges that San Jose State has the largest Asian population -- not even San Francisco is higher!!

The population in San Jose is nearly 1/3 Asian!! Excuse me -- unfriendly toward Asians???

San Jose is categorized as a "city" because of population -- but it is more like a big suburb. It has a very suburbanish feel to it. No, it is not San Francisco, and it is not San Diego, nor is it even close to New York!

It's not an exciting city, but it is a nice city. I don't think San Jose is even trying to be a San Francisco, an Austin or a San Diego, or even a New York (which it will never be). It is just itself. For Heaven's sake, just accept it for what it is. It is not a spinning city, it is a quiet laid-back town, classified as a city because of the population. You can find plenty to do, but it's not going to be in-your-face like other major cities. Deal with it.

As for Asians, I'm stunned that you would even write something like you did. It defies logic. Maybe it is you as an individual -- it is not a racist thing. You're way off-base there. Take a look at the stats and see why you seem like a troll. Thanks.



So, the majority race at San Jose State is: ta, ta....ASIAN!



So, excuse me if I think you're being paranoid, but the reality just doesn't prove it. Sorry.
I am going to have to disagree with notion that a place can be infallibly kind to a certain minority group simply because that group is represented in higher numbers in the population.
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Old 02-24-2008, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
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Boy, you guys are harsh. Look, San Jose is NOT San Francisco or any other place.

Krudmonk, I'm not sure what you're implying -- that San Jose has a lot to do, or doesn't? I'm from the northeast, originally, and, to me, those are big cities -- very different than the westcoast. So, to me, San Jose seems like a big suburb, although it has large numbers. To me, it really does look like a big suburb, not a city. It actually surprised me that San Jose has a larger population than San Francisco. There are things to do, but you have to drive to them, not like where I'm from where you could use public transportation easily. I'm not actually a big San Jose fan, but my kid is, so I am trying to see it differently. I have a friend who moved to Campbell last year (she was raised in Santa Cruz) and she likes it. I'm just used to the eastcoast, so I tend to prefer more dense cities, and San Francisco is closest to those eastcoast cities. There are things to do in San Jose, and I've been to quite a few places -- it's just very spread out. I meant no offense toward San Jose, itself, as I will be spending much more time there in the future.

I only replied to Stinkybrain because I don't, personally, know of anyone biased against Asians, and I live in the area. It was weird to hear that and I did jump at it. So, Stinkybrain, I apologize to you if you felt I had intentionally said something you felt was inappropriate to you as an individual -- I'm sorry, I certainly didn't mean it like that. Quite honestly, if there is prejudice, I would bet you'd find a whole load more outside of the Bay area. By the way, I'm part of the "older" generation, and I had "reverse" racism when I lived backeast -- it happens. But I still had black friends -- (I was in a very large African American populated city) -- it would have been foolish to clump every black into a group because of some who were prejudiced. I am glad the younger people are more open.

I think we are quite fortunate to live in a country with so many different kinds of people. My daughter wishes she was part Asian, but she's still a lot of other things: Irish, English, Norwegian, German and Russian. She'd love to add Asian to the mix because of our experiences here -- but, obviously, she can't change her ethnicity.

Besides, this area is so much less "white" than other places now. It seems like yours was only a personal opinion, Stinkybrain, and that is how it should be posed -- instead, it seemed like you made an overall generalized statement. I still think your reaction was internalized, and probably not externalized (IMHO). I'm sorry you felt the way you did, and I hope your future experience here will be different and better.

Just to give you an example, my daughter adores Asians. She thinks the (cool looking -- spikey-haired, hip clothes, etc.) Asian guys are HOT! I mean seriously. You may have no clue how some people think Asians are so hot! Maybe, if you're a good looking guy/girl, you were being looked at in a more "wow" kind of way, and took it differently. I'm actually serious. We have a guy where we work who is soooo handsome (he's Asian, but I won't tell you which kind), and the girls just fall all over him. Believe me, there are all nationalities where I work, and all the women adore him! (And, yes, they do stare at him -- lovingly, of course! )

Our family hosted a girl from China and she, quite honestly, wasn't very attractive. Of course, she was gay, so I suppose that had something to do with her not being into a typical "girly" fashion -- that was cool, though. She lived with us for six months.

With so many Asians in the Bay Area, and many other ethnicities, it is hard to actually focus on all the differences -- they start blending in together. When someone stands out as an individual -- no matter what race, ethnicity, whatever -- then people take notice and may spend a bit more time checking them out. My daughter is really into fashion (I'm not), so she'll start "staring" at someone and I'll not know why, and then she'll point out something that I hadn't noticed and say, "Isn't that COOL?"

My point is that there are plenty of people who see people as just themselves. And sometimes when someone looks and "stares," it is because of something notable -- not the race. Especially with young people, nowadays -- they are soooo into a global culture, that it is mind-boggling to me. My kid is bilingual in Spanish (she's not Hispanic but lived in South America), she took Japanese, we hosted a Chinese girl from Western Mainland China, we attend a Burmese Buddhist Temple, she has a great friend in South Korea and is teaching herself Korean and plans to study abroad there, she is totally into Latin Ragaetton, we adore the French musician, Mathieu Chedid, she has posters of Korean and Japanese pop stars on her walls in her bedroom, we make our own mochi, I have a very, very close friend in Malaysia, I introduced a white male friend of mine to a black female friend of mine and they have been married (with two kids) for over 20 years, one of my best friends is from Chile, another good friend from Denmark, and the list goes on and on.

So, I don't know what age you are, or what your personal experience is, but at least know that the young people -- especially in California -- are really global in scope and thinking. That is why I tossed out those stats. There are a lot more people like me, than you might suspect -- to look at me, you would probably never guess my own global leanings, but I've given a few examples.

We could learn a lot from teens growing up here -- they really are often blind to race and ethnicity. I work with people from all over, too, and guess what? People tend to gravitate to others -- no matter what country they are from, what they look like, or what their first language is -- but whether or not they click with them and have something in common with them.

I just think you are doing a disservice to yourself, too, by that kind of thinking -- because you are the flip-side of the coin, and you are the other half -- people will respond to what you put out, too.

If my placing stats was offensive, it wasn't meant to be. It was meant to make a point and to, hopefully, show that frequently we like people because of who they are, not what they are. For myself, my daughter, our friends, and my co-workers, that's how it works for us. This is a global, internet-connected world, and our future is in the hands of our young people -- hopefully, they will be the ones to make clear that we truly are judged by what is on the inside, rather than what is on the outside.

Last edited by Wisteria; 02-24-2008 at 03:45 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 02-24-2008, 04:23 PM
 
Location: yeah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
Krudmonk, I'm not sure what you're implying -- that San Jose has a lot to do, or doesn't? I'm from the northeast, originally, and, to me, those are big cities -- very different than the westcoast. So, to me, San Jose seems like a big suburb, although it has large numbers. To me, it really does look like a big suburb, not a city. It actually surprised me that San Jose has a larger population than San Francisco. There are things to do, but you have to drive to them, not like where I'm from where you could use public transportation easily. I'm not actually a big San Jose fan, but my kid is, so I am trying to see it differently. I have a friend who moved to Campbell last year (she was raised in Santa Cruz) and she likes it. I'm just used to the eastcoast, so I tend to prefer more dense cities, and San Francisco is closest to those eastcoast cities. There are things to do in San Jose, and I've been to quite a few places -- it's just very spread out. I meant no offense toward San Jose, itself, as I will be spending much more time there in the future.
That's based mostly in your experience as someone from the east coast. As someone who grew up out here, San Francisco doesn't necessarily feel "bigger" so much as it just feels "different." The amount of activity, not the aesthetics, are what make a city. Los Angeles, being the biggest and most famous city of the west, perfectly exemplifies this. Over in a country like Italy, small towns and big cities have very similar streetscapes: dense living, sidewalk cafes, classic architecture, etc. The difference is far beyond how it looks, though. If you want to experience actual suburbia, go to a town like Danville and you'll see the difference. There are pockets like that here (I was raised in Evergreen so I know), but the center of the city is really quite different. Hell, even that variety goes into the making of a city as opposed to homogeneous suburbs because a city is more than a downtown. New York is not simply Manhattan.
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Old 02-24-2008, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
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Quote:
Krudmonk: That's based mostly in your experience as someone from the east coast. As someone who grew up out here, San Francisco doesn't necessarily feel "bigger" so much as it just feels "different." The amount of activity, not the aesthetics, are what make a city. Los Angeles, being the biggest and most famous city of the west, perfectly exemplifies this. Over in a country like Italy, small towns and big cities have very similar streetscapes: dense living, sidewalk cafes, classic architecture, etc. The difference is far beyond how it looks, though. If you want to experience actual suburbia, go to a town like Danville and you'll see the difference. There are pockets like that here (I was raised in Evergreen so I know), but the center of the city is really quite different. Hell, even that variety goes into the making of a city as opposed to homogeneous suburbs because a city is more than a downtown. New York is not simply Manhattan.
Wait a minute. I think somehow something is lost in translation -- seriously. I've lived out west for decades now, so I like it -- otherwise, I'd have left long ago.

I actually live in a very small town: Felton, above Santa Cruz, so I really know a small town. My parents lived in a suburb in Western New York, and I, personally, hated it -- although my sisters love the suburban lifestyle. My grandparents had a working farm. City, suburbs, country -- each is a personal prefernce, which is what I think you are saying (??) and to that I agree.

Anyway, no, I'm not bashing SF or LA or SJ or anything. I was (I thought) merely making an observation of how cities, although large in population, are different and offer different things. I would not expect a Manhattan out here -- nor would I like one out here -- it is different here, and it is that difference which is appealing.

Somehow I'm not making myself clear, and I do apologize. I only meant to point out that the size of SJ is larger than San Francisco, but as you pointed out, it is very different aesthetically. It was not meant to be a judgement about which is better or worse, as I don't think that applies -- I think they are just different. I was only surprised that the population was as large as it is, as I didn't expect that. I agree that San Francisco is not "big," but it does have a "different" charm (because of that density), that I happen to prefer.

My daughter was raised out here, and she happens to prefer San Jose -- I happen to prefer San Francisco -- different strokes for different folks. Now, would I prevent her from living in San Jose just because it's not for me? Of course not -- I would support her and encourage her in her decision because it is her choice, not mine. She needs to be where she feels comfortable.

I live in a very small community right now -- I've lived in major cities, too. I've traveled extensively -- I happen to like a lot of different styles -- except, I do admit that I don't like suburbs -- for whatever reason, they have never appealed to me. But that's just me.

Anyway, I have no clue if I've made myself clearer or not -- and please know that I am not advocating an eastcoast lifestyle out west -- absolutely not the case! If I wanted to live in Manhattan or Boston or any other large northeastern city, I'd be living there -- I chose not to. I chose to live here.

I hope this somehow clears it up, and if not, please let me know and I will be happy to try to explain more clearly. Thanks!
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
I only replied to Stinkybrain because I don't, personally, know of anyone biased against Asians, and I live in the area. It was weird to hear that and I did jump at it. So, Stinkybrain, I apologize to you if you felt I had intentionally said something you felt was inappropriate to you as an individual -- I'm sorry, I certainly didn't mean it like that.
Wisteria, of course you meant to insult me intentially. You flat out called me a troll, thereby invalidating my opinions. And just because you don't personally know of anyone racist doesn't say anything about everyone else you don't know. Don't project your limited sample on the whole populace. You're the stat quoter, so you should know better than to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
Quite honestly, if there is prejudice, I would bet you'd find a whole load more outside of the Bay area.
Well, of course. You seem to not understand what "subtle" and "vibe" mean. I never said San Jose was a racist place. The notable point, which you seem to miss, is that the existance of the unpleasant vibe is extremely suprising because, as you pointed out yourself, san jose has a huge minority population. Again, I only refer to downtown's vibe. So, don't start exaggerating and arguing what I haven't said.

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Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
I'm part of the "older" generation, and I had "reverse" racism when I lived backeast -- it happens. But I still had black friends -- (I was in a very large African American populated city) -- it would have been foolish to clump every black into a group because of some who were prejudiced. I am glad the younger people are more open.
Just a little advice, don't say you have black friends as proof you aren't racist. It totally simplifies what racism is in the modern day. I know people who have black friends, but when there are no blacks around, they start refering to blacks as ****** and make other derogatory statements for laughs. It's totally tasteless but probably harmless because they don't think they're racist and would never limit the achievement of blacks in their organization, but still, how do I explain away the racist jokes they make in private? And it makes me wonder what asian jokes they make when I'm not around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
It seems like yours was only a personal opinion, Stinkybrain, and that is how it should be posed -- instead, it seemed like you made an overall generalized statement.
I did make everything into a personal opinion. Count the number of *I*'s in my first posting. And another tip: your over-reaction to my post tells me you are trying too hard to not be racist, which often suggest highy suppressed racism that you are ashamed of. I prefer racists to be overt as long as they aren't violent. That way, I know what's what and can avoid them. So, when one of your black friends says they're being followed in a store, don't try to argue or deny their feelings just because no one you know is racist. And don't call them paranoid. In fact, you called me paranoid in one of your posts! Anyhow, I know you hate racism. Just don't deny it exists because you might be mis-categorized as a "suppressed" racist, since that's their typical behavor. Respond to someone's unpleasant racist encounter with "That really sucks!" At least, that's what I would prefer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
Just to give you an example, my daughter adores Asians. She thinks the (cool looking -- spikey-haired, hip clothes, etc.) Asian guys are HOT! I mean seriously.
You mean well, and I'm actually starting to like you, honestly. But please, refrain from mentioning how your daughter *adores* Asians. Yes, we're cute and harmless. That's called trying too hard to not be racist. Or, rephrase your statement to say "I just adore blacks." Does that seem a bit awkward to you? Like, if you said it in front of people, it'll make everyone go silent and look awkwardly at each other in embarrassment for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
You may have no clue how some people think Asians are so hot! Maybe, if you're a good looking guy/girl, you were being looked at in a more "wow" kind of way, and took it differently. I'm actually serious. We have a guy where we work who is soooo handsome (he's Asian, but I won't tell you which kind), and the girls just fall all over him.
Again, you're trying too hard to not be racist. I think you were trying to make me feel better about myself? I never said I felt unattractive but that is the stereotype, that asians feel unattractive because beauty standards are eurocentric. Another tip: don't say how hot asians are in person or people will laugh at you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
My kid is bilingual in Spanish (she's not Hispanic but lived in South America), she took Japanese, we hosted a Chinese girl from Western Mainland China, we attend a Burmese Buddhist Temple, she has a great friend in South Korea and is teaching herself Korean and plans to study abroad there, she is totally into Latin Ragaetton, we adore the French musician, Mathieu Chedid, she has posters of Korean and Japanese pop stars on her walls in her bedroom, we make our own mochi, I have a very, very close friend in Malaysia, I introduced a white male friend of mine to a black female friend of mine and they have been married (with two kids) for over 20 years, one of my best friends is from Chile, another good friend from Denmark, and the list goes on and on.
There's never a need to prove you aren't racist. People will know either way on an emotional basis. Here's a fun thing to do to see if your friends are racist or not: bring your black friend to a party unexpectedly and when you introduce him around, look at the very initial reaction. Did your white friend suddenly hold his breath? Tense his shoulders? Smile stiffly, awkwardly, embarrassedly? Look in some way uncomposed? It's very fleeting, usually, and then everyone talks just fine. In fact, they might compensate and be overly friendly to your black friend too. That's the modern day racism that's typically encountered, very low-grade and covert, but your race is still seen first and reacted to, before any other part of you. When people don't feel as comfortable around you, they don't promote you, or give you juicy work assignments, etc. Racism nowadays is subtle. It's not like people leave the room because of your race: that's 1970's.

Anyhow, you seem like a very good person, Wisteria! Hopefully, you'll consider some of the race etiquette I offered!
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Old 02-25-2008, 02:06 AM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
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Wow, I'm really surprised, Stinkybrain. At least you kind of get that I'm not racist, but, wow, you don't know me, and the things you say are so out of character for me, that I'd almost love to meet you in person.

Gees, I'm not going to go into a whole litney of my life, but suffice to say, I've been around the block lots of times. I only gave a few examples because your replies are pretty harsh, and surprising, from, I assume, a younger person.

Like I said, I grew up in the northeast, and, yeah, I did (and still do) have lots of friends of all kinds of backgrounds -- I always have. I am not from the south, by the way, which I hear is still very racist.

As for my friends, do you really think someone like myself would have friends so different from me?? No, they're just as accepting. Look, I'm not the norm, never have been, never will be. I don't fit into a stereotypical category either -- I am just who I am -- and that is how people -- of all backgrounds refer to me -- just me.

I'm used to being around all kinds of people, and I like others who have the same level of acceptance. Quite honestly, I don't really know how to answer you -- if I give examples you call me a suppressed racist (boy, you really ought to know me in person to nullify that stereotype), and the black thing -- I don't know -- it sounds to me like you're really falling into stereotyping. I'm really surprised. Besides, it's not unheard of in the northeastern cities to know a lot of blacks, because there's a huge population of blacks (I'm not from the South, which from my own experience going down there was awful just being a "Yankee," and I'm sure for blacks it's got to be much worse) -- I know a lot of mixed couples -- it's not that uncommon. Out here, maybe that statement seems weird, because it's a smaller population, I was merely stating my own experience from where I'm from, originally.

I just thought if you knew a few things that didn't at all make me fall into that category of suppressed racist whites, that maybe, just maybe, you'd see there are some nice people who maybe don't dress hip, or are young and cool, or whatever. My daughter is very cool, and very open, and I'd be mortified if you thought she was a "suppressed racist!" Oh, my gosh, I just couldn't bear that. You're welcome to meet her, too.

Look, you don't know me -- you're welcome to meet me in person to know who I am -- I don't have anything to hide. I'm just a person who has always been open and accepting, and curious about all sorts of things. I'm actually a nice person.

The reality is, I know that on a board like this that people lie (I've, unfortunately, seen that -- even on City-Data), and I'm, unfortunately, (for me sometimes) a bit too honest. But I've always believed that honesty was the best policy and whether or not others believe that, it's just my nature. That's probably partly why I do have friends of all backgrounds because I can't fake it -- I either like someone or I don't. I can't hide my feelings -- I am very transparent in that way, and never got that whole technique of being able to lie well.

I'm sorry for calling you a troll -- it wasn't you I insulted, but rather the moniker of "Stinkybrain." I have no idea who you are -- I might be real surprised in person to see who and what you are like.

It's really silly, I think, that I have to even justify your attacks on me (they sure felt like attacks), and then when I bring up an example, that is twisted into a non-example, or some demonstration of trying too hard. You don't know me...people in real life do.

I know for a fact that there are people on this board who lie up their you know whats (I'm one of those few people who says "heck" and "darn" too....but I digress.)

I have tons of examples -- especially from back east where it was multi-cultural before it was "popular," and I won't give anymore examples. I know the truth, and I am quite willing to put myself on the line and meet you in real life -- the harmless looking little old white lady who is a little weird just because she is (although pretty smart), might be a surprise to you. I don't like my integrity being questioned, and it really, really bothers me on these boards that people do lie, and that there is no way to show the truth to others.

So, I guess my trying to give examples was bad, and trying to be -- what I thought was supportive -- by giving stats to prove you weren't alone (I really assumed you were kidding), was bad. And my kid -- leave her out of it -- because she is only 18, and a great girl, and she is not anything remotely what you describe as racist -- she (like mother like daughter) also is very accepting of others. We, personally, draw the line at "Are they a good and nice person?" If they are, then that is what counts.

I guess there's no point in trying to say anything else -- I'm "blanked" if I do, and "blanked" if I don't. I really tried. My tendency (obviously) is to express myself as clearly as possible and to cite examples of why I say what I say so they are not empty expressions.

And don't say Asians are "hot?" Gees, the people I know (especially the younger ones) seem to think so (I'm talking about the cute, "hip" guys, in particular). No one has laughed yet at me or my daughter -- in fact, usually people just joke and say, "You're going to have an Asian son-in-law!" And, quite honestly, I didn't even know if you were (or even really are) Asian -- I can't tell who's really telling the truth, or taking some side of something just to get a rise out of people -- which is why I honestly thought you were a troll -- I only saw your typed words.

Well, I don't know. If you want to meet me in person, off the board, do so. You might be surprised. I'm no hip, cool, phony person -- I'm just me. I tried to give you examples to make my point, but you didn't want to hear it and made fun of me. "Race etiquette?" I never even heard of that.

I just happen to like all kinds of people as long as we get along and have fun together, or share the same interests. I honestly don't care what people look like, as long as I like them and they like me -- that's the bottom line to me. I know that people throughout my life have said I'm extremely accepting and a little weird, and laugh at the situations I get into. I have tons of stories -- but since I know people of so many backgrounds, I feel really weird like I'm not supposed to identify anyone. Very strange. Maybe the new etiquette is to pretend to pretend or something. I really don't get it. I'm a bit too direct for covert subtlety -- it's taken me years to try to just figure out basic tact. I'm a bit too honest for many people -- which is probably why the friends I have really trust me and I them. No game playing.

Yes, I'm older, but I'm also a good person, and I find it difficult to accept that you appear to be racist toward me -- that's how it feels -- just because I'm a white person and now I'm not supposed to have friends of different backgrounds or really like them because I'm different from them..., or, well, I just don't get it. I guess the people I hang out with are different. I don't know.

Anyway, if you feel that racist vibe or subtle undertones, I'm sorry -- I can assure you it's not from us -- you didn't meet us in San Jose!!

And, you're right -- when people meet me in person and know me as "me," you're right -- there is obviously no indication that I'm racist. It's pretty obvious to people. If you do encounter it with others, I'm sorry. Like I said, I've had reverse racism (no more examples -- I swear), but although I didn't like it, it was only because I knew who I was inside and they didn't....which is why it is so dreadful. However, there are those who do rise above it (not saying you don't -- gees, now I'm afraid to say anything because it might be interpreted wrong), and I know there are many successful people in all areas. Remember, women get put down, too, a lot and find it harder than men. And me, I'm very short (no, I'm not a dwarf, I'm proportionate, but short), so I've gotten teased all my life for that, too, plus it's hard just to do normal things like reach those stupid debit card/grocery card machines in the store, or to even get something off a shelf. There are all kinds of discriminations, and I've seen people fail because of them, and I've seen people succeed because of them. I've had my share of tragedies in my life, and I know how difficult life can be (no examples again - I swear!).

So, Stinkybrain, I again apologize for what appeared to be racist to you. I again offer to meet you in person, if you would like to see what I'm like as a personality. If you met me on the street in San Jose, and not having my glasses on, I might seem to be staring at you (squinting, I guess is more like it), and maybe I'd be clumped into the racist group -- I don't know.

I'm just me -- and maybe I am as strange as people tell me -- although I look normal....but it's my mind and attitude that are different, I guess.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do, and I'm sure that down the road you will find the right path for you, and maybe a couple of people like me whom you will find really are just open, accepting people -- seeing at a soul level, rather than a skin level. I hope so.

Oh, and I just saw that "MichaelinWa" post -- maybe that's what you're referring to as being supportive. Just say one or two sentences. I know I'm verbose -- sorry, but I truly like to clarify and give examples. (I'm from the eastcoast -- remember?? We tend to talk a lot back there...)

Okay, so, that's it. I don't know what to say. I tried to explain myself. I felt very hurt that you seem to think I'm some weird covert racist, and there's no way on a board anyone can even see me, much less know me, so all I can offer is to meet in the Bay area and you can see for yourself that I am who I am (not like those on the board who make things up just to sound good -- gees, I just realized you might think I mean you .... no, no, I just happen to know of people who do make things up and it's frustrating).

Anyway, I won't come back to this thread -- I see I've worn out my "welcome" -- okay, I didn't even have a welcome -- so I'll just go.

Again, I'm quite open and honest, so you're welcome to contact me. I am just me....nothing else...no hidden agenda....no false exteriors...just me.

Oh, yeah, and I DID actually meet someone on this board a month ago! She can attest that I am just a normal person! She lives here in Santa Cruz, too. (I forgot about that.)

But my daughter is cool, and she probably knows that "etiquette" that you speak of -- I'm not with it. In fact, my blunt honesty is an embarassment to her at times....

Okay, well, I hope things go better for you, I'm sorry you had that experience, and like I said, if you want to meet -- or take my art (Drawing from the Right Side of the Brain) class in Santa Cruz this spring (don't know if you'd be wanting to commute from wherever you are moving to - I think you said Redwood City, only I'd have to look on a map to find out where), you're welcome to sit in for free (if you're interested -- really - I've had people from an animation studio around there take the class for fun, so just let me know).

Good luck to you, sorry I didn't know the proper etiquette, and I am a "real" person and you are welcome to meet me in person.

Interesting conversation/thread, and I've learned I have to keep my mouth shut nowadays, although I'm so blunt and directly honest, I'm not sure I'll pass that test. Oh, well, I tried. Sorry again for saying the wrong things -- I just didn't know they were wrong.

Okay, folks, I learned a lot here, and now I'm paranoid!! Thanks for the feedback. I can see I'm not up-to-date, so I'll just leave this to those in the know. Thanks for the info. Bye, and have fun, all.
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
1,918 posts, read 6,768,829 times
Reputation: 2707
P.S.
After I got to thinking about it, I realized that my life story would be pretty hard to describe without describing the people in my life. It'd be something like: "I went to this party and there were all these different people -- [can't describe any ethnicity or races to make it interesting] -- and we had fun." Or I went to another country, and while there, I met some fascinating people who were different from me, but I liked the differences [can't describe the differences because that might be stereotyping...] I dated this man who was different, but really cool [again, can't use descriptions for fear of being culturally insensitive..] Well, you get my point. Now, if I lived a whitebread kind of life, that would be okay -- but my life has been fully enriched by the "differences" in my life.

I think I will start a thread and just see what people think. Honestly, when I got to thinking about it, I realized I couldn't even tell my story. If I said we attended a Buddhist temple, I couldn't put in where they were from, or why it was different -- I guess people would just have to assume it was people like me and my language.

I realized how strange my life would be without all the richness of "diversity" (I know people sometimes hate that word), and how bland it would be. Not being an object-oriented person, but experiential, I'm not sure how I'd live my life without exposure to "differences."

Very interesting points. Much food for thought.
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