Is $70,000 a decent salary for new college grad? (Fortuna, Needles: luxury, school)

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by ezjackster

Now please **** and leave you retarded prick.

Surely this sort of banter will soon result in praise and raises at work, yes? Only 2 posts in, and we've already arrived at this! But hey, points for "being real", as they say, no?

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by nagleepark

$70K is a good starting salary but you've got the wrong goal. Your goal should be to increase your salary (either by significant merit increases or by changing jobs over the next 1-3 years), not try to "frugal" your way into saving money from your current salary.

In today's world, you have to do *both*.

[nagleepark]

Originally Posted by nagleepark

$70K is a good starting salary but you've got the wrong goal. Your goal should be to increase your salary (either by significant merit increases or by changing jobs over the next 1-3 years), not try to "frugal" your way into saving money from your current salary.

Originally Posted by NickB1967

In today's world, you have to do *both*.

I see a conflict, though.

To get ahead, you invite the VP out to lunch. He says, "Yes", and, since he's rich, he suggests a nice restaurant because rich people like to eat at nice restaurants. He orders the medium priced entree which, at this nice place, is $20. Then the bill comes. Even though he's rich, the VP is also a cheapskate (all rich people are cheapskates, in my experience). You look at the $50 bill and then look at each other. Do you insist that he pay for both of you? Do you insist on going dutch? Do you pay for him and yourself? If it's awkward, he'll decline any future invitations. If it's fun and easy and you go out to eat a few times, there's a chance that you'll get a better-than-good raise or maybe a promotion or maybe get moved to a high profile project because the VP KNOWS YOU.

If you go out with VPs a lot, it'll work better than if you only go once. But you'll be stuck eating and paying for lots of meals at fancy restaurants, even if you are only paying for yourself and even if you think that the food is a waste of money.

Similarly, suppose that a semi-famous startup founder comes into town to do presentation to the Angular User's Group at 6:30 PM - 8:00 PM. Can you get there on your bike or via Caltrain? Maybe or maybe not. If you get there, you sit through the presentation and, afterwards, you go introduce yourself to the founder and he says, "What's fun to do around here at night?" To him, fun = spending money. He's got a rental car but he says, "I don't know my way around here. Why don't you drive?" Do you show him your bike, your Caltrain pass, your 2005 Honda or your 2012 Audi? Do you insist that he drive? Do you take him to a nice restaurant or to your house for cucumber salad? Next time that he's in town (or is looking for somebody he already knows in your area), how do you get him to remember you favorably?

So I see frugality and salary improvement as often (but not always) at odds.

[spicydreamt]

Originally Posted by nagleepark

(...) Do you show him your bike, your Caltrain pass, your 2005 Honda or your 2012 Audi? Do you insist that he drive? Do you take him to a nice restaurant or to your house for cucumber salad? Next time that he's in town (or is looking for somebody he already knows in your area), how do you get him to remember you favorably?

So I see frugality and salary improvement as often (but not always) at odds.

Summary: it takes money to make money.

The counterpoint to that (because that's what I do, counterpoints...): I once had a stellar Indian engineer who would regularly invite me (his Dir Eng back then) at his house for home-made meals. Greatly more memorable than a fancy restaurant (French runs $100/person at lunch in that area). He didn't need to do this, he was always the most qualified for management promotion anyway. He eventually landed the Dir Eng role as I moved up from that role. So, your mileage may wary. To VPs looking to promote, a person's work ethics combined with awareness of what sr management needs out of the role, is miles ahead of the one who sees his promotion as a dumb-VP problem to shove money at. In my experience anyway.

[nagleepark]

Originally Posted by spicydreamt

The counterpoint to that (because that's what I do, counterpoints...): I once had a stellar Indian engineer who would regularly invite me (his Dir Eng back then) at his house for home-made meals. Greatly more memorable than a fancy restaurant (French runs $100/person at lunch in that area). He didn't need to do this, he was always the most qualified for management promotion anyway. He eventually landed the Dir Eng role as I moved up from that role. So, your mileage may wary. To VPs looking to promote, a person's work ethics combined with awareness of what sr management needs out of the role, is miles ahead of the one who sees his promotion as a dumb-VP problem to shove money at. In my experience anyway.

If he had taken you to a nice restaurant, it wouldn't have hurt, right? So, frugalness didn't help, it just didn't hurt.

Besides, we're talking about guesses and odds, not an ironclad law of nature.

VPs always think that they promote on merit. Just like stupid people always think that they're smart (it's even been scientifically proven! -- a study gave a bunch of people tests and those who did the worst always thought that they performed above average). Or like evil people don't know they are evil. VPs promote people they know and they like; they're human and they don't know what they don't know. If you get to know them and they like you, they call that "merit". Just the way of the world.

Yes, I'm sure that there are a few VPs that don't like luxury cars and fancy restaurants. But many, many do. I wouldn't bet my career on only working for VPs who are frugal, down-to-earth, humble people who search their subordinates looking for merit. They exist, I guess, but aren't typical.

It's possible that this $70K guy can be ERE and super frugal and be respected for it. Maybe his quality work will always be recognized and rewarded, even though he's always brown-bagging it and on a tight budget. Maybe he'll get every single raise and promotion that he would have gotten if he spent more money. It's possible.

[bentobox34]

Originally Posted by nagleepark

I see a conflict, though.

To get ahead, you invite the VP out to lunch. He says, "Yes", and, since he's rich, he suggests a nice restaurant because rich people like to eat at nice restaurants. He orders the medium priced entree which, at this nice place, is $20. Then the bill comes. Even though he's rich, the VP is also a cheapskate (all rich people are cheapskates, in my experience). You look at the $50 bill and then look at each other. Do you insist that he pay for both of you? Do you insist on going dutch? Do you pay for him and yourself? If it's awkward, he'll decline any future invitations. If it's fun and easy and you go out to eat a few times, there's a chance that you'll get a better-than-good raise or maybe a promotion or maybe get moved to a high profile project because the VP KNOWS YOU.

If you go out with VPs a lot, it'll work better than if you only go once. But you'll be stuck eating and paying for lots of meals at fancy restaurants, even if you are only paying for yourself and even if you think that the food is a waste of money.

Similarly, suppose that a semi-famous startup founder comes into town to do presentation to the Angular User's Group at 6:30 PM - 8:00 PM. Can you get there on your bike or via Caltrain? Maybe or maybe not. If you get there, you sit through the presentation and, afterwards, you go introduce yourself to the founder and he says, "What's fun to do around here at night?" To him, fun = spending money. He's got a rental car but he says, "I don't know my way around here. Why don't you drive?" Do you show him your bike, your Caltrain pass, your 2005 Honda or your 2012 Audi? Do you insist that he drive? Do you take him to a nice restaurant or to your house for cucumber salad? Next time that he's in town (or is looking for somebody he already knows in your area), how do you get him to remember you favorably?

So I see frugality and salary improvement as often (but not always) at odds.

This is why it's important to select a career path that reflects your values. In my field, the bicycle and cucumber salad would be more impressive.

[bentobox34]

Originally Posted by ezjackster

How about the fact I worked my ass off majoring in one of the hardest fields out of college... engineering. When most Americans fail college algebra.

The fact I did take two years off to do in total four paid internships at respectable fortune 500 companies. When most college students have troubles landing one internship

Also the fact, I have "computer skills" (Java, .Net, etc...) that most people, like your self, most likely don't have.

Now please **** and leave you retarded prick.


//END OF RANT for implying I have no experience.

P.S. if you must know, going to college isn't cheap. It's an investment.

I don't have rich parents to pay for my school. Though I went to a state school I have ~$30k in debt. I worked most my college career 6 years to help support my education. Don't I have the slightest right to give a @#@@ how much I'll be making after the hell going through college... to land a single piece of paper, that starts my career.

OP, the question you asked as the title of this thread is absurd. $70k is a great starting salary for a new grad, full stop. Unless you really **** up, for example by carrying the attitude on display above into your professional life, you are guaranteed to be part of the top 10% for the rest of your life. Enjoy it and lighten up.

[spicydreamt]

Originally Posted by nagleepark

If you get to know them and they like you, they call that "merit". Just the way of the world.

We'll have to agree to disagree - again. In the enterprise just like outside, "merit" and "liking" aren't synonymous. You do the OP a disservice by conflating both meanings... (and what's with the underhanded ad-hominem about stupid people, really)

[RecentGrad1]

Originally Posted by bentobox34

This is why it's important to select a career path that reflects your values. In my field, the bicycle and cucumber salad would be more impressive.

Well said. I bike to work and am actually paid an extra monthly bonus by my company to do so. I bring my homemade lunch to work along with numerous other people in my building.

Needing to spend a ton of money to impress people in order to make a ton of money to save more sounds pretty convoluted.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by RecentGrad1

Needing to spend a ton of money to impress people in order to make a ton of money to save more sounds pretty convoluted.

That's for bus-ec majors, not talented engineers. People with skill don't need to grease wheels, kiss ass, or even work for shallow pointy-haired guys in the first place. You don't work that hard to be a tool.