Anyone Else Thinking of Moving Out of Bay Area? (San Jose: 2013, condos)

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Californian12345

I've lived in the Bay Area my whole life. We currently live in Willow Glen and we work up the peninsula. As our kids are getting a little older (4 and 2) we are starting to look at schools and our lives in general. We're finding that perhaps the Bay Area may not be all it's cracked up to be; crime is getting worse and worse, especially in San Jose, traffic is terrible, and if we want to move closer to work, it's $2m for a house thats 2500 sq ft built in 1955, it's getting very crowded and expensive everywhere you look.

We're throwing around the idea of moving out of state to get away from it all and get a better quality of life for the price.

Are we crazy? Is anyone else thinking this way? Does anyone else feel like the allure of the Bay is fading?

I think the crime issue is overblown but the rest is spot on. The Bay Area and coastal California metro areas more generally, are just too expensive for most people to raise kids without it being a complete and utter rat race.

I have to admit, though, I'm sort of surprised you're just noticing this, since it's been true for around 2 decades now.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by SoLongCalifornia

Increase in murders, assaults, burglaries and car thefts over the last few decades.

//www.city-data.com/crime/crime...alifornia.html

The data listed on your link only go back to 2000, which was the low water mark for homicides in SJ. If you actually went back a few decades, you'd find the homicide rate was MUCH higher back in the 1980s and most of the 1990s.

It really annoys me to no end when people say stuff that has no basis in reality.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by teoreticar

Not really. Why would I when income per household here is above 200k

Wrong. Median household income in Santa Clara County is less than half that amount, at $93,500.

Santa Clara County has highest median household income in nation, but wealth gap widens - San Jose Mercury News

This is another thing people don't like about the area. The high earners are oblivious to the bubble they live in.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man

For that lifestyle, you can get it a little cheaper by moving to a good area of Gilroy. The South County has a decent winery scene as well

The Napa area is nicer than Gilroy.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

SJ has a lot of great qualities, but I think this one is really a stretch.

Agreed. Average great weather with awful traffic; mediocre cultural amenities with lousy public schools; a good job market (but only if you're in tech) with low crime (despite panicky comments to the contrary). What you get is an average quality of life with astronomical costs. For people with kids, it's not worth it since you don't have the time, energy, and money to do much of the fun stuff if you have 2 parents working full time and commuting as a result of the need to pay through the nose for astronomically high rent/mortgage costs.

[cis_love]

i moved from CA to Seattle 2 years ago and we recently got an offer from a company in SV to move back. after thinking about all factors we decided to stay for now. yes, weather sucks and we miss CA a lot, esp the diversity and the greater opportunities for culture and food, etc. also all of our family and friends are there. but financially, i just didnt want to struggle anymore. and the schools in my current neighborhood are excellent -- far superior to CA schools. and i say this as someone who had kids in CA schools for 10+ years in supposedly some of the best districts in the state.

[wsugrad03]

Originally Posted by NYinCA2014

As usual, you are spot on.

Definitely looking into Austin, of course the heat would be nasty but I don't want to deal with cold winters. The high property taxes that people speak of aren't as shocking when one recently lived in New York. It is very appealing to think about buying a house for $200-300k. I feel like the sacrifices to live in SV are just too huge in terms of housing costs and congestion.

What is your opinion on the real estate market in Seattle? I get the impression that it is pretty ugly up there, though not quite as bad as SV.

Denver is appealing, but I wonder how much of a tech market exists.

The sacrifices in SV are probably worth it for single tech workers, but not so much for families unless you're goal is to climb the ladder to partner level. Cost of housing just explodes at that point and priorities change.

The Seattle housing market is heating up, but it's nothing compared to here. You can get a pretty decent craftsman house in Seattle with easy commute to Amazon for mid to high 600s. Eastside cities like Bellevue, Redmond, Issaquah and Sammamish are more expensive, but also have the outstanding schools. You're looking closer to 800s for new homes out there. But there's plenty of order homes (80s-90s or newer) to be had for 500s with close commutes, but are 3-4 bedroom and 2500 sq/ft that make SV homes look like the putrid, worthless homes the really are. All the value is in the land here. If you have any specific questions about housing or Seattle, PM me. I lived there for 11 years and owned 2 homes in that time, and I work in tech.

We did think of both Denver, Boise, and Austin. There's okay tech in all 3, but Austin probably has a little bit more. Boulder has Google and Microsoft, whom both work on geodetic cloud stuff I believe. If you're a US citizen, there's tech work at Boeing in Colorado Springs and Lockheed in Denver. There's a bunch of small to midsize tech companies in the Denver area as well. Denver has the sunshine, but really epic winters. Austin has the sun, but too much heat. It's also it's own landlocked island with no mountains. Denver at least has mountains and skiing. Boise has some tech with HP/Agilent, Micron and I think even Microsoft. Of these three Boulder has the highest cost of living that is closer to Seattle. Austin proper is just as expensive. But you'll also command less salary there, but will nevertheless enjoy better quality of life than in SV.

It's a tough call. We sometimes question if moving to SV from Seattle was the right call because we were living in a newer luxury home in perfect school districts up there. Here's we're just renters crammed into a 2 bedroom apartment. But we left Seattle because we couldn't stand the weather, and felt that we needed to target the best job market, so I still think our move was the right one. Cracking into home ownership here is going to be a major challenge though.

Have you considered maybe San Diego? North San Diego has pretty good tech in the golden triangle and lower housing costs than SV. Irvine has some good tech as well, although it is costly to live in both as well. At least the weather is still great. The resounding theme here is the grass is always mostly greener on the other side, but it comes with some risk as well. The risk is the tech markets aren't always as strong and growth is limited. People have to weigh everything out for themselves.

[wsugrad03]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

Wrong. Median household income in Santa Clara County is less than half that amount, at $93,500.

That's accurate, but is mostly because of established home owners that bought years ago, and distribution of lower income people renting. If you look at the median income of people who are actually buying homes in Santa Clara Country, it's likely closer to 200k. When people generally refer to the income people need to live here, they're implying the income needed to afford to buy a home....the whole American dream thing.

[Azmordean]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

Agreed. Average great weather with awful traffic; mediocre cultural amenities with lousy public schools; a good job market (but only if you're in tech) with low crime (despite panicky comments to the contrary). What you get is an average quality of life with astronomical costs. For people with kids, it's not worth it since you don't have the time, energy, and money to do much of the fun stuff if you have 2 parents working full time and commuting as a result of the need to pay through the nose for astronomically high rent/mortgage costs.

I don't disagree with the idea that this area is a tough place to raise kids, but I think you paint a bleaker picture than is accurate.

Schools vary hugely -- yes there are lousy districts, but there are good ones too.

Traffic -- I've lived in other places (Houston, Washington, DC) -- and traffic is no great shakes either. Compared to DC, the traffic here is as bad during rush hour... but not NEARLY as bad at other times. Here, you can usually actually get around on Sunday at 3pm, which is more than can be said for DC a lot of the time. My point is, traffic is a problem throughout the US, it's by no means unique to the Bay Area. Now, cost of living can compound it, because people have super commutes to avoid the prices. But that's a separate issue.

Quality of life -- You say average, I think it is way higher than average. I guess it depends on what you like... but the offerings out here are, for me, awesome. I love outdoor activities, and this area is excellent for that. I can be hiking in the mountains in 45min, go on a nice bike ride right out my door, be up in SF which is an awesome city in 45min, be at the beach in an hour or less, or skiing at Tahoe (most years...) in 4-5 hours. Oh, and excellent wine and food options all around. Not many major cities offer all of that.

Now, you can debate if it's worth the price, but I don't think QOL here is merely average.

As for myself, I'm single, and in tech, so I'm very lucky and recognize that. Even so, I don't see myself staying here forever. I'm primarily here for work, and while I like the area a lot, there's plenty of others I'd consider (Seattle, maybe Boston, maybe the Southwest, maybe the Midwest if I could find a great job). Of course, I also actually like seasons (other than hot humid summers), so I'm more open to other areas than some :P.

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by Azmordean

As for myself, I'm single, and in tech, so I'm very lucky and recognize that. Even so, I don't see myself staying here forever. I'm primarily here for work, and while I like the area a lot, there's plenty of others I'd consider (Seattle, maybe Boston, maybe the Southwest, maybe the Midwest if I could find a great job). Of course, I also actually like seasons (other than hot humid summers), so I'm more open to other areas than some :P.

I'll tell you that when I was single, I didn't see high rents as a major issue. It wasn't for me at that time. I lived in the city, in a nice pad and had plenty of money to go out a lot, travel and save for retirement.

When I got married and had kids, the entire equation changed. You start thinking about good school districts and a nice home, in a safe neighborhood. That costs a ton in the Bay Area. This doesn't include daycare costs, which are over $3,000/month for 2 kids. I wouldn't trade my kids for the world and feel blessed in what life has provided us. I'll also tell you that with my wife and my combined incomes, we're probably in the top 2-3% nationwide. We're doing well, but living here definitely doesn't make me feel rich.

A year or two ago, we doubted we'd be able to continue the type of upper middle class lifestyle we had envisioned for ourselves, raising a family. We looked at other cities and came very close to pulling the trigger and making the move.

Its a little tight as it is for us now, but we're slowly getting ahead. Had we chosen to relocate, I'm sure it would've been much easier. I'm glad that we stuck it out, as we're still close to family, we still can take advantage of all the amenities of the Bay Area and are still in this great job market. Still, our tradeoff is a long commute.

I think we're more fortunate than most and can completely understand why so many people relocate when it comes time to starting a family.