Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Once again. You are wrong. Santana Row is an urban mixed-use NEIGHBORHOOD built in a suburban area. It is not really a mall. It is not really an office park. It is not really a residential complex. It is not really a restaurant row.
Wrong. Santana Row is a suburban mall, and has no resemblance to an "urban mixed use neighborhood". It isn't urban, and it isn't a neighborhood. It's a mall. The whole complex was built by a mall developer, as a private mall development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man
No. That's Winchester and Stevens Creek intersection, where Santana Row is located next to. Those streets are the outer part of Santana Row, and not counted as in the neighborhood of Santana Row itself.
Wrong. That is the main intersection in that neighborhood. There is no other main intersection in that area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man
Wrong. Both those streets are public streets, accessible to vehicles, pedestrians, and cyclists at all time of the day.
Wrong. Those are privately owned streets, in the middle of a privately owned mall. The fact that it's accessible to the public has nothing to do with anything. The public has full access to Valley Fair Mall and all other malls in existence too.
The only main difference between newer CA malls like Santana Row and older CA malls like Valley fair is that one has a roof and the other doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man
Santana Row has 1200 units (both residentials and hotel rooms) spread over 16 acres. That is roughly 75 units/acre. This is quite a good number in terms of density. A typical SFH in the South Bay is 7 units/acre (assuming the standard 6,000 sqft lot of most SFH). Santana Row is definitely NOT your typical West Coast suburbia
Wrong. The Santana Row neighborhood has very low density and is classic West Coast suburbia. It's almost exactly like Newport Beach/Costa Mesa, like Irvine, like the Topanga mall area in the SFV, like Walnut Creek (except WC is more walkable and sorta like a downtown, and has rail), like basically any suburban mall-oriented area on the West Coast. The specific residential project you are citing is already factored into the very low suburban-style neighborhood density. A sprawly suburban neighborhood doesn't magically become urban because some mall developer puts put some suburban condos.
The fact that you're claiming a suburban mall is an urban neighborhood, and you are crazy enough to compare a mall to Paris is Exhibit A why San Jose will never be urban. Your standard for urban is absolutely absurd. Going by your standard, San Jose is already urban heaven, because it's almost nothing but hellish suburban sprawl like the area around Santana Row.
LoL what does an intersection in Santa Clara have to do with the actual Santana Row development?
The fact that this clown thought the Cheesecake factory was in Santana Row shows you she has never been there.
The Topanga mall is nothing like Santa Row at all.
Santana Row is not really typical at all. It was one of the most ambitious attempts at mixed use redevelopment in the United States, is very successful, and not really replicted anywhere else in the country, because other parts of the country can't afford it.
Please do not entertain the out of towner trolls folks. They do not live in San Jose, are not from San Jose, and lack the skill sets to be employed in San Jose.
We are talking about whether or not SJ is boring, not urban. With 30, 000 visitors s day, Santana Row is hardly boring. With all the stuff going on downtown, it is hardly boring.
For me there's practically no resemblance at all between the Santana Row area and the Topanga Mall area or any other SFV mall area that comes to mind.
But how can any place, person, or thing bore anyone? Boredom comes from inside, not from an environment. If some people don't find San Jose stimulating enough -- honestly, the fault does not lie with San Jose.
For me there's practically no resemblance at all between the Santana Row area and the Topanga Mall area or any other SFV mall area that comes to mind.
There is no difference whatsover in those areas. They're built exactly the same way. Only locals would know the difference.
But according to homers in this thread, suburban malls in San Jose look like Paris, but obviously share zero resemblance to suburban malls elsewhere in CA...
LoL what does an intersection in Santa Clara have to do with the actual Santana Row development?
Uh, besides being the main intersection in that part of town? Are you saying we should judge a neighborhood by completely ignoring the main arteries in the neighborhood? LOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardOfRadical
The fact that this clown thought the Cheesecake factory was in Santana Row shows you she has never been there.
So you're a both a liar and incapable of reading comprehension? Nice combination.
And yes, it's totally relevant whether Santana Row has Cheesecake Factory, PF Changs, or Maggainos. Clearly that is the ultimate determining factor on relative urbanity (oh, and alongside the number of times a C-D forumer has been to the mall Pinkberry). I mean, if there's a Yard House, clearly urban. But if we're talking Red Lobster, it's obviously suburban; duh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardOfRadical
The Topanga mall is nothing like Santa Row at all.
It's exactly like Santana Row. No difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardOfRadical
Santana Row is not really typical at all. It was one of the most ambitious attempts at mixed use redevelopment in the United States, is very successful, and not really replicted anywhere else in the country, because other parts of the country can't afford it.
Could you give us ONE reason why Santana Row is not similar to other suburban malls? This should be good...
And yes, other parts of the country can't afford to build suburban sprawl. Clearly there is no sprawl in the U.S. outside of San Jose, and clearly it's because the rest of the country can't afford Applebees, Gap and Starbucks. The poor dears in NYC, SF and the like have no idea what they're missing over at Chilis...
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardOfRadical
Please do not entertain the out of towner trolls folks. They do not live in San Jose, are not from San Jose, and lack the skill sets to be employed in San Jose.
Ah, yes, because only San Jose trolls are allowed to comment on C-D threads. Anyone who challenges crazy claims by delusional San Jose homers who think suburban malls=Paris are disallowed from comment. I guess we didn't get the memo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardOfRadical
We are talking about whether or not SJ is boring, not urban. With 30, 000 visitors s day, Santana Row is hardly boring. With all the stuff going on downtown, it is hardly boring.
Nice non-logic. "If a suburban mall has many visitors, then it is no longer a suburban mall."
Uh, besides being the main intersection in that part of town? Are you saying we should judge a neighborhood by complin tely ignoring the main arteries in the neighborhood? LOL
So you're a both a liar and incapable of reading comprehension? Nice combination.
And yes, it's totally relevant whether Santana Row has Cheesecake Factory, PF Changs, or Maggainos. Clearly that is the ultimate determining factor on relative urbanity (oh, and alongside the number of times a C-D forumer has been to the mall Pinkberry). I mean, if there's a Yard House, clearly urban. But if we're talking Red Lobster, it's obviously suburban; duh!
It's exactly like Santana Row. No difference.
Could you give us ONE reason why Santana Row is not similar to other suburban malls? This should be good...
And yes, other parts of the country can't afford to build suburban sprawl. Clearly there is no sprawl in the U.S. outside of San Jose, and clearly it's because the rest of the country can't afford Applebees, Gap and Starbucks. The poor dears in NYC, SF and the like have no idea what they're missing over at Chilis...
Ah, yes, because only San Jose trolls are allowed to comment on C-D threads. Anyone who challenges crazy claims by delusional San Jose homers who think suburban malls=Paris are disallowed from comment. I guess we didn't get the memo.
Nice non-logic. "If a suburban mall has many visitors, then it is no longer a suburban mall."
I don't think anyone here compared San Jose to Paris, are you smoking sherm? You can't even make up your mind on whether to call it a mall or a neighborhood. You can't even troll right.
Topanga is nothing like Santana Row and has already been written off as a failure. It's a poor man's Santana Row. Minus the residential units, office space, high end retailers, five star hotel, and customers. Outside of the two having stores and food they don't feel the same at all. Are you smoking sherm?
I don't know why you keep talking about chains, most of the food in Santana Row is not chains.
Why would anyone focus on an intersection that has nothing to do with the development? I would not describe Ruby Hill in Pleasanton as agricultural, just because the largest public intersection outside the private community is largely surrounded by wineries and pastureland of Livermore.
Are you smoking sherm?
And why do you keep talking about urbanity, this thread is about vibrancy. There are 30,000 people who jam into Santana Row, an area smaller than skid row, daily. The area is vibrant during the day and evening, everyday.
And yes LA locals and San Jose locals would know the difference. Since you are not a local of either city, and from a small suburb, you don't know the difference and exist only to troll. This remindes me of when you got owned trying to compare BH to Manhattan. LOL!!!!
Last edited by WizardOfRadical; 01-03-2016 at 01:19 AM..
Wrong. Santana Row is a suburban mall, and has no resemblance to an "urban mixed use neighborhood". It isn't urban, and it isn't a neighborhood. It's a mall. The whole complex was built by a mall developer, as a private mall development.
WRONG. Federal Realty who built Santana Row is a developer of many types of projects, both offices, residential, and retails. Westfield who owns Valleyfair is your quintessential mall developer.
Quote:
Wrong. That is the main intersection in that neighborhood. There is no other main intersection in that area.
WRONG. We are talking about Santana Row itself, not the Stevens Creek/Winchester neighborhood.
Quote:
Wrong. Those are privately owned streets, in the middle of a privately owned mall. The fact that it's accessible to the public has nothing to do with anything. The public has full access to Valley Fair Mall and all other malls in existence too.
They are public streets on whose surroundings Santana Row, a mixed-use project happened to be built around. The public has full access to Valley Fair Mall, but they cannot drive THROUGH it. They have to drive AROUND it.
You can drive right THROUGH Santana Row anytime of the day.
Quote:
The only main difference between newer CA malls like Santana Row and older CA malls like Valley fair is that one has a roof and the other doesn't.
WRONG. You cannot live at Valley Fair. You cannot work at Valley Fair except for the retail jobs of the mall itself. You cannot stay at Valley Fair as a hotel guests. You can do all that at Santana Row. This is the difference, and not merely because one has a roof and the other doesn't.
[quote]
Wrong. The Santana Row neighborhood has very low density and is classic West Coast suburbia....A sprawly suburban neighborhood doesn't magically become urban because some mall developer puts put some suburban condos.
[quote]
Once again, I gave you the numbers already. 1,200 units spread over 16 acres = 75du/acre. That is good urbanized density. It is not extremely high density, but it is a good start and certainly merit being seen as urban. In fact, Santana Row is referenced many times as an urban neighborhood by many contemporary urbanists.
Quote:
The fact that you're claiming a suburban mall is an urban neighborhood, and you are crazy enough to compare a mall to Paris is Exhibit A why San Jose will never be urban.
WRONG. I did not compare Santana Row to Paris. I am comparing the density of 6-7 stories residential development at Santana Row to the standard 7-8 stories residential buildings in Paris. The comparison was meant to show that 6-8 stories residential development carry very good urban density, and if it was good enough to be deemed as "urban" in Paris, then it is good enough to be deemed "urban" as well with Santana Row.
Quote:
Your standard for urban is absolutely absurd. Going by your standard, San Jose is already urban heaven, because it's almost nothing but hellish suburban sprawl like the area around Santana Row.
Once again, we are not talking about the area around Santana Row. We are talking about Santana Row itself. You need to stop going off on a tangent and focus on the actual topic we are debating, and that topic is Santana Row itself.
And yes, it's totally relevant whether Santana Row has Cheesecake Factory, PF Changs, or Maggainos. Clearly that is the ultimate determining factor on relative urbanity (oh, and alongside the number of times a C-D forumer has been to the mall Pinkberry).
NOLA, you don't seem to understand what WizardRad is saying. WizardRad pointed out that you say Santana Row has a Cheesecake Factory when it has never had one. This means you never been to the Row. And this is why you have this assumption that it is just another "outdoor" mall. Go visit the Row, and judge for yourself with your own eyes when you are there.
Quote:
Could you give us ONE reason why Santana Row is not similar to other suburban malls? This should be good...
Can you name me another suburban mall where people live AT it? Can you name me a mall where 2,000 people live literally RIGHT ABOVE the stores?
Quote:
And yes, other parts of the country can't afford to build suburban sprawl. Clearly there is no sprawl in the U.S. outside of San Jose,
Once again, you are taking quotes out of context. WizardRad is NOT talking about building suburban sprawl. WizardRad is specifically talking about Santana Row. WizardRad is stating that Santana Row itself, an incredibly successful mixed-use urban development, is seldom replicated across the country due to the massive private investment involved.
Quote:
Ah, yes, because only San Jose trolls are allowed to comment on C-D threads. Anyone who challenges crazy claims by delusional San Jose homers who think suburban malls=Paris are disallowed from comment. I guess we didn't get the memo.
You apparently did not get the memo where we compare density of a 6-7 stories residential complex (Santana Row) to the standard 8-stories residential complex (throughout most of Paris) and deem it as a good starting point in terms of urbanized living.
Quote:
Nice non-logic. "If a suburban mall has many visitors, then it is no longer a suburban mall."
It is only applicable if Santana Row is a suburban mall. It is NOT
NOLA, I don't want to sound like a d!ck, but I really don't want to waste my time dealing with newbie trolls like yourself. You should go practice your trolling in Oakland or Plovdiv forums first, and then come back to us when you can actually troll properly.
Right now your trolling is so terrible that I feel bad when I put you in your place! *sigh* Is it the sherm, or what?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
