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So I'm hoping to move to Bay Area (or LA) in a couple years (2022).
My wife is from DC (Bethesda/Potomac area), and I need to convince her that Bay Area >> East Coast. Anyways, she is open to move to west coast.
Combined income is around 500-600k.
Both of us are professionals.
We are hoping to have 2-3 kids (no kids yet) in the next few years.
Any suggestions for a couple in mid-30s, wanting to start a family?
Here is what we are looking for:
1. Multicultural/Cosmopolitan Area - wife loves diversity
2. Relatively good access to BART/Public Transport/freeways
3. Close to International Airport (<30 min drive)
4. Good Schools
5. Warm Weather (main reason we are moving to Cali)
6. "Cool restaurants"
7. Being relatively close to downtown SF (<60 min ideally)
8. 3 bedroom, 3 bathroom home. I guess around 2500 sq?
We lived in NYC x 5 years, and we like areas like Park Slope, Bay Ridge (Brooklyn) for comparison.
What do you suggest is a good budget for what we want? We are first time home owner buyers.
I was initially thinking around 1.2 million, but my wife thinks I'm crazy to spend that much first time. So maybe around 800k? I'm not sure. Should we rent initially instead? I just hate dumping money into rent, been doing it all my life. How's the housing market forecast in Bay Area next 5 years?
Your income isn't sufficient to maintain a 'middle class' lifestyle in the Bay Area as a childless couple, let alone a family. Oakland, Alameda used to be OK but now it is gentrified. Maybe Vallejo but it still has a 'rough' reputation. Consider Sacramento.
1. Multicultural/Cosmopolitan Area - wife loves diversity [jdhpa] I think most of the Bay Area qualifies for this. Many people here from India, China, Central and South America. A good representation from other countries as well (UK, Russia, France, South Korea, ...), but not nearly as many as the first 3 above.
2. Relatively good access to BART/Public Transport/freeways [jdhpa] Public transportation here isn't very good. Probably the best is in San Francisco itself, but I don't think it's great anywhere. It will be a couple orders of magnitude less convenient than what you're used to in NYC. Freeways are basically parking lots during rush hour, especially in the main commute direction (north in the morning, south in the afternoon).
3. Close to International Airport (<30 min drive) [jdhpa] Either San Francisco airport (in South San Francisco, mid-peninsula), or San Jose airport.
4. Good Schools [jdhpa] There are 'good' schools on the peninsula (Palo Alto, Menlo Park, San Carlos, Belmont, Burlingame, ...), but if you live in San Francisco itself I would suggest a private school. South Bay has lots of 'good' schools as well, Cupertino, West San Jose, Campbell. Keep in mind 'good' schools primarily means most families put their kids in after school / summer classes, tutoring, etc. Lots and lots of extra work for the kids. Parents in these schools push their kids *hard*, and congregate in 'good' school districts so their children are surrounded by other kids whose parents do the same. Not everyone wants their kids to grow up that way. Something to consider.
5. Warm Weather (main reason we are moving to Cali) [jdhpa] This depends on your definition. I would say mid peninsula and south are 'warm'. San Francisco itself can be quite cold, even in summer. It doesn't snow (ever), but don't be surprised when there are summer highs in the 60's. Mark Twain joked that the coldest winter he ever spent was summer in San Francisco. That's a bit of an exaggeration, of course, but San Francisco is more temperate than warm.
6. "Cool restaurants" [jdhpa] There are nice restaurants all over the Bay Area. Some areas have an abundance (San Francisco), others have a smattering (most of the peninsula).
7. Being relatively close to downtown SF (<60 min ideally) [jdhpa] This depends heavily on day and time. Early weekend morning, probably anywhere down to San Jose. Rush hour, maybe mid peninsula and north.
8. 3 bedroom, 3 bathroom home. I guess around 2500 sq? [jdhpa] This will be tougher. Most homes in the area are very small, like 1600 square feet. You can certainly get any size you want, but 2500 sq will cost several $million.
What do you suggest is a good budget for what we want? We are first time home owner buyers.
I was initially thinking around 1.2 million, but my wife thinks I'm crazy to spend that much first time. So maybe around 800k? [jdhpa] You're not in the right ball park. You could probably get a nice, small, mid century home on a postage stamp sized lot in Campbell for $1.3 million. Campbell is a nice town for a family. It's pretty far from San Francisco, though. If you go on the peninsula, that small, mid century home will be $2+ million (unless it's someplace you don't want to live).
[jdhpa] I've known several young couples who enjoyed living in San Francisco, but within a few months of having their first child decided San Francisco isn't a great place to raise kids, and moved to the mid peninsula (which is very nice, but doesn't have nearly the restaurants / night life / entertainment that San Francisco has). So you may want to rent in San Francisco at first to enjoy what it has to offer, then decide where you want to buy.
Your income isn't sufficient to maintain a 'middle class' lifestyle in the Bay Area as a childless couple, let alone a family.
That's completely untrue. The Bay Area is expensive, but a combined income of $500-600k/year is more than enough to live a comfortable lifestyle here...even with kids. I'm not sure where you're getting your information from.
Your income isn't sufficient to maintain a 'middle class' lifestyle in the Bay Area as a childless couple, let alone a family. Oakland, Alameda used to be OK but now it is gentrified. Maybe Vallejo but it still has a 'rough' reputation. Consider Sacramento.
What a joke of a statement. OP don't listed to this advice. You'll be fine on $500-$600k, but just be aware of the SALT limitation of $10k now which really kills people in this marginal tax bracket with the new tax law and mortgage interest capped at $750k unless you bought prior to the grandfather date sometime in 2017.
If I wasn't already here, not sure I'd be looking to make a move to CA based on those negative financial factors. I'm already thinking of turning the primary home into a rental and buying something less to mitigate the financial impact of that Salt cap. $10k just isn't much with property and income taxes when the CA marginal tax rate is 9-10% for that income level. Heck, we're paying European tax rates living in CA with NONE of the benefits.
I almost wish Bernie to get elected so he can have everyone pay 50%+ in taxes and see how he screws all the poor people making only $50-$60k once 50% taxes is taken out like many European countries. Would have to guess we'd have a blood bath in this country, but then we would just leave, but our kids would be screwed.
That's completely untrue. The Bay Area is expensive, but a combined income of $500-600k/year is more than enough to live a comfortable lifestyle here...even with kids. I'm not sure where you're getting your information from.
I think Nell must have read the OP wrong.
$1.2 million isn't anywhere near enough, that's for sure.
Quote:
How's the housing market forecast in Bay Area next 5 years?
Nobody knows. Too much uncertainty, starting with the loose cannon who is now governor of the state. I think statewide rent control will most likely affect housing prices negatively, as it's a disincentive for investors. But that's just my opinion.
What I *can* tell you is that my house on the mid-Peninsula has been at the same value for eight years now, so growth is stagnant. You buy now, you may not make any money if you decide to sell in a few years because warm weather isn't enough reason to live here.
Last edited by fluffythewondercat; 01-06-2020 at 01:56 PM..
Combined income is around 500-600k.
Both of us are professionals.
We are hoping to have 2-3 kids (no kids yet) in the next few years.
Any suggestions for a couple in mid-30s, wanting to start a family?
Here is what we are looking for:
1. Multicultural/Cosmopolitan Area - wife loves diversity
2. Relatively good access to BART/Public Transport/freeways
3. Close to International Airport (<30 min drive)
4. Good Schools
5. Warm Weather (main reason we are moving to Cali)
6. "Cool restaurants"
7. Being relatively close to downtown SF (<60 min ideally)
8. 3 bedroom, 3 bathroom home. I guess around 2500 sq?
We lived in NYC x 5 years, and we like areas like Park Slope, Bay Ridge (Brooklyn) for comparison.
1. The Bay Area is filled with different colors of people from all over the world, all coming to the region. The region has its own unique mono-culture. It doesn't mesh well with NYC. There is no tolerance for conservatives, personal accountability and you'll need to develop a keen ear for a sliver of discontent buried in a sweet pie communication. It's not NYC. It's also different from LA or San Diego.
2. Mass transit is a joke. Your only bet for south bay is to live near a Caltrain station.
3. Airports are solid. You have SFO, OAK and SJC all nearby and offering international flights.
4. The schools are expensive and great on paper. They check all the boxes. However, they're disappointing overall and smart kids will carry others via outsized group project based assignments. This is where the lack of personal accountability starts and is groomed. Most parents send their children to afterschool programs which are good and readily available.
5. San Jose definitely has better weather than San Francisco. San Francisco tends to be very foggy and rainy. San Jose has tons of sunshine. It's amazing really.
6. San Francisco has tons of latest trends in culinary eats. If delectable bites are completely worth a bit more, wait times and access issues....that's you're place. South Bay is much more utilitarian and follows the population. You might be surprised at the diversity gained and the basics you lose.
7. Can't be done from South Bay. Again, best option is to live near a Caltrain Station.
8. For an ok area you are looking at $1.5-2.5M in South Bay. SF is likely $2.5-3.5M, which may include some kind of parking. It's amazing how many people I've visited that have a great address and they're still sleeping on the college futon because everything they have is going into their payments.
And that's the danger of the area. If you borrow $2M for a $2.5M home, which is hardly unreasonable here, that's $10K each month over 30 years and your taxes will start around $3K a month. If you are at $600K a year, that's $50K a month. You will see, after taxes and benefits, $23-25K of that. So, $13K is doable, but you're really looking at $10K to start budgeting with. Now you get to decide on how much to spend on child care, private schools, nice cars, nice restaurants etc. You can afford it. However, get too many of those expenses fixed and then you need both people to have ready income streams. Assuming you are both making $300K, what happens when the investment funds to the area dries up? Hence why the WORK game of thrones here is ridiculous. You have a ton of people that can't afford to lose their job operating in a market that pays a premium because start-ups come and go quickly.
When the bust happens, real estate here will actually go down in some areas because people can't afford their mortgages anymore and they are forced out. If enough people in an area are forced out, then the next layer of people who could scrounge and make it work suddenly find themselves paying $10K on a home that's worth less than they owe on it, and they default...bringing things lower still. So people team up to a degree I've never seen anywhere else. It could run along ethnic lines, but it's often family and friend based. Those connections' inability to do their job that impacts your work will be of no defense for you in getting your work done. Welcome to the game...
I loved this area as a frequent tourist. During fun time, it's great and the weather cooperates. However, it is hypercompetitive to work here. Rent is a waste of money, but if I were you, I'd rent for the first year and then re-validate your decision as to which coast you prefer. They are markedly different.
This was my childhood home (link), built in 1939, parents bought it new for $16K. You can see what you get for $1.1M, 1400 sq ft on a postage stamp size lot...hardwood floors, lath and plaster. Granted, it is in Willow Glen. That was the average size home at the time.....very small by today's standards.
This was my childhood home (link), built in 1939, parents bought it new for $16K. You can see what you get for $1.1M, 1400 sq ft on a postage stamp size lot...hardwood floors, lath and plaster. Granted, it is in Willow Glen. That was the average size home at the time.....very small by today's standards.
I like Willow Glen. Very walkable. I'd consider your childhood home if I wanted to live in San Jose. $1.1 million doesn't seem like too much to me.
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