Decision to move from California

[rickca]

I find it amusing that "liberals" and democrats are complaining about the high costs in California.. don't you realize that the high tax rates are part of the reason for the high cost of living? I am not a Republican or Democrat and find it strange that people so closely identify with one of the other but I just find that amusing.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by rickca

I find it amusing that "liberals" and democrats are complaining about the high costs in California.. don't you realize that the high tax rates are part of the reason for the high cost of living? I am not a Republican or Democrat and find it strange that people so closely identify with one of the other but I just find that amusing.

As a Republican, I have to say I partly agree and partly disagree with you. We do have high tax rates here in CA. However, the main thing that drives the cost of living so high here are our housing policies. Nobody wants new housing built in their back yard, and existing homeowners have the ability to block a lot of development.

Of course, that proposition from back in 1978 that limited property taxes does not give cities any incentive to build housing either. But I think the legislature could find a way to incentivize building more housing if it wanted to.

But instead, the (Democrat controlled) legislature likes to wring its hands and wonder how all of this could happen and then blame Republicans for not wanting to raise the minimum wage etc. They don't realize that people wouldn't need to earn inflated wages if we actually BUILT some housing.

The other thing that drives high tax rates (well there are lots of things, really) is illegal immigration. We simply can not afford to allow a huge influx of uneducated, illegal, immigrants into the state/country and then be surprised that we can't afford to educate and provide social services for them. This is not rocket science here. Although Republicans are also somewhat culpable on this issue.

And then of course, high health care costs are diving up state sponsored health insurance costs for low income people. We, as a country, need to get serious about making health care costs reasonable for BOTH taxpayers and consumers alike. Unfortunately, Democrats only focus on getting more people covered and think this will fix all the problems (not even close!!!)and Republicans deny there's a problem. So we end up throwing more and more money at a horribly expensive and inefficient system.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

But it really is a different way of life. Lets face it, no place is perfect. When you move from the Bay area to another state you will be trading one set of pros/cons for a new set.

I couldn't agree more.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

However, the main thing that drives the cost of living so high here are our housing policies. Nobody wants new housing built in their back yard, and existing homeowners have the ability to block a lot of development.

Of course, that proposition from back in 1978 that limited property taxes does not give cities any incentive to build housing either. But I think the legislature could find a way to incentivize building more housing if it wanted to.

But instead, the (Democrat controlled) legislature likes to wring its hands and wonder how all of this could happen and then blame Republicans for not wanting to raise the minimum wage etc. They don't realize that people wouldn't need to earn inflated wages if we actually BUILT some housing.

The other thing that drives high tax rates (well there are lots of things, really) is illegal immigration. We simply can not afford to allow a huge influx of uneducated, illegal, immigrants into the state/country and then be surprised that we can't afford to educate and provide social services for them. This is not rocket science here. Although Republicans are also somewhat culpable on this issue.

Somewhat culpable? The Republicans are A LOT more than just somewhat culpable on this issue.

Drive down the 101 sometime through the central coast farm lands ... you'll see tons of McCain signs, NOT Obama signs. And see who's bringing illegals here literally by the truck loads ... it's Republicans (and big time Republican campaign contributors at that) who own the big farms and bring illegals to this state by the millions. None of this would be happening if Republicans weren't bringing the illegals here in the first place.

As for building housing ... what you say is true. Particularly on the Central Coast and Bay Area where prices are higher. However, as much as I like cheap housing, I'm not sure I want that to change. I like the fact that a lot of these towns are slow growth and that they actually debate and plan development. I also like the fact that much of the California central coast is still preserved and not overrun with housing tracts and shopping malls.

I've lived in places where anything goes with the crowded urban sprawl and, IMO, the quality of life is better with less of it. If that means I have to pay more, so be it.

However, even if California decided to build more cheap housing ... that would still bring us back to the illegal problem. Because you know who the contractors would hire ... right? Illegals, of course. Just like they did during the boom ... all in the name of lower costs which didn't benefit anyone but themselves.

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by rickca

I find it amusing that "liberals" and democrats are complaining about the high costs in California.. don't you realize that the high tax rates are part of the reason for the high cost of living? I am not a Republican or Democrat and find it strange that people so closely identify with one of the other but I just find that amusing.

Personally, I think CA is hurting the most from prop 13 - the one that freezes property taxes for property owners who have owned their property for more than X years. It was great for home owners, but they were a small percentage in terms of the winners. It was the commercial property owners that have made out big time. CA is missing out on so much tax revenue compared to other states, forcing them to hit everyone who isn't saved by prop 13 that much harder to make up for it. Until they fix that one it's going to cost everyone else a lot of money and the state will suffer.

And if you want to look at this from a political viewpoint, which party tends to favor tax breaks for the big corporations while the little guy bleeds? I'm guessing that 90% of the home owners in CA are paying outrageously high property taxes because of prop 13, a prop that saves commercial property owners boat loads of cash every year. Good luck getting that one changed. It's a mess on both sides.