Even if you're a Software Engineer, will the price of the Bay Area still cost you your quality of life?

[denver_hacker]

Originally Posted by lylatu956

Would you say that for him gaining experience with bigger companies will substantiate more on paper than say interning with a smaller company? My theory is that experience is experience no matter who gives it to you, but not sure how it's perceived from a recruiting standpoint.

It sort of depends on what he's interested in. Generally, people involved with startups don't think much of big companies. They see big organizations as too slow with too much red tape. Big companies tend to see people who are attracted to startups as not a great fit. Startup folks need fast paced, constant change to keep them entertained.

However, it is common for recent grads to start with a big company like HP or Oracle, get some experience, and the bail for something smaller. Oracle is known for burning out recent grads and then sending them on their way to build successful startups. Also, the valley is very small and everyone does backdoor reference checks. Once you earn a rep as someone who can hack it and excel in a startup, you usually have people trying to hire you. Or you can go the corporate ladder route and stick with big companies. This usually means coders have to choose between a management path or a technical one that involves sitting on standards committees and writing white papers (almost academic - IBM research fellow kind of thing).

One thing to keep in mind is that you don't want to approach it as just another job. If he just sees it as an "IT job that makes money", that will come across. Good, and consistently employed, software developers are passionate about software and contribute to open source projects, they attend meetups, they constantly watch new developments, learn new languages on their own, etc. The best are intrinsically drawn to coding and do it even when they don't have a job. Having a job is just a nice outlet for their coding impulse.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by lylatu956

Would you say that for him gaining experience with bigger companies will substantiate more on paper than say interning with a smaller company? My theory is that experience is experience no matter who gives it to you, but not sure how it's perceived from a recruiting standpoint.

Thanks for your insight, Derek.

-Lynne

Hi Lynne,

I would say ultimately what one did is more important than where. So for example if someone did an intern with google or intel but basically just performed menial tasks vs some who worked with cutting edge technologies at a smaller company I would prefer the later. However if the candidate did cutting edge software or hardware with Oracle for example that would be the best of course. So where does play a role but it is not more important than what skills the new hire brings to the table.

Any experience is better than none, even if that is from part time jobs, maybe 10 hours a week while in school. It doesn't have to be a formal internship. Real relevant work is the key. He will be skill building throughout his career which really starts now. And those skills are what will help determine what kind of opportunities he will be offered. In the IT field it is critial to keep one's skills current and the more the better in one's area of interest.

Derek

[lylatu956]

That's really great advice guys! Thanks so much. Hubbs is really an intelligent person when it comes to this tech stuff. He's always reading up on these things and applying it when possible. I do hope he is able to find a good internship oppty. He is a sponge with information and has always proven his worth wherever he goes.

Hope you guys have a good weekend!!

[Huckleberry3911948]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

One area of the high tech industry which this doesn't occur in is DoD. But this normally requires US citizenship and a security clearance depending on the position.

direct? like lockheed missile or milpis? for sure but non sensitive subcontracting is allowed --- that is how they make money.

[sjh]

Originally Posted by denver_hacker

Just another anecdote to add here...
We both agree that the valley is not a good place to raise kids. Everything is hyper wealth status focused - how much do you make, where do you live, what do you drive, where are you on the ladder, etc. .... Granted, employees are well compensated, but I don't think money makes up for lost time with your kids. This is coming from both growing up and working out there. Many times I would see parents choose jobs over family - sure, people change the world out there, but their kids would get lost.

I'm glad I read this... It reinforced my decision turn down a 4th round of interviews "on-site" with a big-name tech company that was "really excited". I don't want to work in a place where I have to miss family time (let alone a kids soccer game) to be at an all-night "hackathon" or where 60 hours is the norm.

I've known people that basically didn't see their kids at all from Sunday evening until Friday evening. That's not me.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by sjh

I'm glad I read this... It reinforced my decision turn down a 4th round of interviews "on-site" with a big-name tech company that was "really excited". I don't want to work in a place where I have to miss family time (let alone a kids soccer game) to be at an all-night "hackathon" or where 60 hours is the norm.

I've known people that basically didn't see their kids at all from Sunday evening until Friday evening. That's not me.

I think this really depends on the corporate culture which you should inteview the company about. Most hiring managers will be pretty straight forward regarding this sort of thing. Its in their best interest to find a good fit. For example working at ebay, google or oracle could all be different in this regard.

You just have to know where to draw the line for your life and your family going in. I remember interviewing with a dot com company and asking these same questions. I also mentioned that while I enjoy my work and also like having a life. They seemed somewhat amused with this comment. But the way they responded was an immediate red flag to me. They were just too into their little cool workplace, stock options and dollar signed glazed into their eyes. That was their life.

Derek

[Nell Plotts]

I spent much of my life in human resources. During the selection process time is spent on "fit" from the employer's point of view. The applicant should consider the same issue. My daughter works in an industry known for difficult relationships and working conditions - not family friendly. She works for a firm known for collegiality that values family.

It is better to be up front about your values during the selection process than find out that you are not a good fit for each other after 6 months.

There are a number of SV employers who have operations in the Silicon Forrest (Portland area). The community culture accommodates family time.

[gnomatic]

Originally Posted by lylatu956

? My theory is that experience is experience no matter who gives it to you, but not sure how it's perceived from a recruiting standpoint.

Is you husband doing his B.Sc? If so, internship is essential. I haven't seen a "new grad" with just a B.Sc. in at least 6 years. Yes he will be competing with people from India or China..many of them got graduate degrees from US universities. Contrary to popular belief, they are not paid less.

Where makes a huge difference. I did a 16 month paid internship back in 1998. Before I left for my senior yr, I had an offer from that (a very well known) company to return. I also received and accepted an offer from a competing multinational company in SJ within the first month of my senior yr.
By the time we graduated (keeping in mind, this was early 2000, dot com crash was still a few months away), my classmates got job offers in this order

1) the people who did internships at the big high tech company got jobs offers before graduation (most from the place where they did their internship)
2) the people who did internships at the big high tech company
3) the people who did internships at big banks/insurance company
4) the people who did internships at small tech companies
5) not sure what happen to the rest...

Believe it or not, GPA was not a factor for those of us who did internships. Despite my so-so grades, I got more interviews then friends who did internships at the same company. I think it was because I had experience in a very specialize area, I also had related summer and part time job experience.

[gnomatic]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

direct? like lockheed missile or milpis? for sure but non sensitive subcontracting is allowed --- that is how they make money.

Not entirely true... there are certain encryption & security in networking equipment that require US citizenship & security clearance. Most of those jobs are on the east coast though.

[Nell Plotts]

Here is my opinion: if the OP's wife is willing for him to jump into the new job with both feet for two years max the both of them are likely to have what they want. Think about it in terms of a military family without the risk of getting shot or blown to bits or an medical residency. Figure out what skill subsets are in short supply and master them. During the last 6 months of that commitment start shopping for a better job, 'better' by what ever terms you then define. He will know the corporate cultures of the major players and will have developed a network that will help find the right place. Don't buy a home, rent. Keep your bags packed so that you are mobile.

Most professionals are motivated to change jobs because of working conditions, not pay.

Unless you are risking your current position go out for that third interview. Heck, they are paying for the travel and you might learn something. The recruitment is the courtship, if they don't treat you well at that stage be nice but graciously decline any offer.