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There have been a few threads on this topic before, but some have aged a bit so I didn't think it was out of place to ask again.
Thinking of re-locating to any of two or three different places. Am telling myself I'm reasonably aware of the "feel" on Santa Fe re: size / culture / political / cost of living, and I've been lucky enough to have traveled around NM before, so scenery-wise I sorta know what I'm looking at.
Naturally, I'd love to hear from folks on the ground -- whether or not you're originally from around there -- and if you've traveled around in the US a bit, are there any other cities/towns that you would say it compares to? And that's in regards to whatever respects most quickly come to mind, or warrant comment: size, geo/topography, weather patterns, anything you'd like! I've lived in a variety of places so almost any type of aspect (or other place) you refer to, I can probably grasp the comparison being made.
Additionally, right now I live in a place where the population density is allegedly similar to Santa Fe, but I've got to believe that the traffic density here is *much* higher, and it also stays congested for many miles in any direction away from downtown (which is somewhat bigger than there). So how's the traffic? And again, can you compare it to anywhere else where you've lived, or have visited with some frequency?
Traffic has improved since Covid. Not as dense as it used to be along certain corridors. And because there's less crowding on the main thoroughfares, drivers seem more relaxed and better-behaved. Who knows how long that will last, though. Still, it's nothing like a big-city driving experience.
Will you be bringing a job with you, or are you retired?
Housing costs continue to rise. Would you be renting or buying?
I don't know what Santa Fe could be compared to. It's pretty unique.
Some people say it's high-crime, but there are neighborhoods all over town where crime isn't an issue, so IDK what those other people are talking about.
It's a great place if you're into the arts or Native culture. Also, there are think-tanks and colleges in town, plus the national science lab outside of town, all of which contribute to a calendar of enriching lecture events.
Joaquin --
I'm retired and live about 38 miles outside of Santa Fe and I can get as much of the place as I want in about a 45-minute drive. I was there a week ago for the day. I made a conscious decision not to live there after many visits going back to the 1970s. It changed over the years, mostly away from what I liked about the place... but that is true of almost any place that has been "discovered". It more than doubled in size. I take it as it is. I like to visit. I have never gotten a bad restaurant meal in Santa Fe, and many have been memorable. My impression of the art and gallery scene is that it is better than almost any other place in the country. It is touristy and can be expensive. Taos is about an hour north. Albuquerque Sunport is about an hour (or a little more) to the south. Traffic in Santa Fe is sometimes difficult but the place dates to 1610. After a while you find ways to get around easier.
I can't compare it to similar places -- there really aren't any. The Bay Area is not similar in most respects. Marfa has an art scene but not much else. The LA area might be a little similar in some places if you like that SoCal crush vibe. There might be some artsy mountain towns in Colorado (maybe Aspen or Telluride or some such) that might seem much smaller but a little similar. I once lived in a small Midwestern town of 45k and everyone seemed to be related one way or another and very complacent and very white. Traffic was a non-issue. Santa Fe is twice the size and a world-class multicultural destination city -- no comparison. I lived in a large eastern city with a huge metro population -- no comparison. The Albuquerque metro is about one million and has some of the same southwestern cultural flavor but is huge by New Mexico standards.
This will probably be long, so let me apologize up front. We've lived here for over six years now. I have lived in St. Louis, Phoenix, the Bay Area, the Washington DC area, and Asheville NC prior to coming here. Every place is a mix of good and bad. The important part is that the good meshes with what you want or are interested in and that you can tolerate the bad. Good and bad are also very subjective.
Despite moving around as much as I have and having spent time in other places, I don't think Santa Fe compares to anything. The combination of Native American and Spanish cultures is rather unique, the place dates back 600 years, and then combine that with 7,000 feet of elevation.
On the subject of elevation, people seem to either adjust to it or they don't. We never found it to be a problem, and been coming here every couple of years since 2000 prior to moving here. But, I have seen other people struggle and some eventually leave because between the elevation and the low humidity, they simply could not adjust. And one of the things commonly told to visitors is to drink a lot of water. I talked to an EMT one day who said that probably at least 70% of the people they treat are dehydrated along with anything else they may be treating.
Likewise, people with allergies can have some problems. We have things growing naturally that most have not been exposed to before (chamisa is a common culprit) and some people react to them very badly.
I would compare Santa Fe to Asheville NC in that both have a focus on the arts and have many very good restaurants. They are of similar size. But Santa Fe is much more established and "sure of itself" if that makes any sense. We lived in Asheville for ten years immediately prior to moving here, and my quip from day one was that its major challenge was "figuring out what it wanted to be when it grew up." What drove us out is it grew up (the influx of people was far greater than it has been in Santa Fe), but there was never a plan so things got much more like a bigger city than we liked.....and we knew it was only going to get worse (which it has). Santa Fe is what it is, and that identity is fairly cemented in its culture and heritage. Both Santa Fe and Asheville have very different cultures, despite some similarities.
Traffic here is rather minor league compared to any big city. Cerillos Road can be aggravating, but even that is tame by comparison. Visitors can jam up the streets near the plaza, which SunGrins pointed out are connected by streets that have their roots almost 600 years ago. Parking near the plaza can sometimes be a challenge, but I can only think of one time that I abandoned a plan because I could not find a place to park and that was a place for lunch that I decided to try on a whim, and I knew there was little parking in the area. Now when there is a major event around the plaza, just avoid that area and park a little further out or find the "hidden gems" for parking. All of this is less of an issue for us than Asheville was. I have no point of comparison beyond that.
New Mexico in general is great for day trips, as you probably already know. Santa Fe's proximity to Albuquerque is convenient, and likewise the ability to get to southern Colorado with a decent drive is also convenient.
Santa Fe is not perfect, nor is any place (you might be amazed at the number of people who seem to be looking for perfect). We have some of the same problems as any other city, large or small. Just scale them down for our size. No place is free of problems. It can be hard to get people to work on the house (don't show up), but that is an epidemic everywhere, I think. Over time you will develop a list of people/companies that are dependable both in showing up and doing good work.
The vast majority of people here are pleasant and helpful.
My own biases that skew my view on things are that we very much appreciate the Native American culture, which is pretty much a necessity here. The artwork and traditions are extremely interesting and we respect them. Having lived in every timezone, the Mountain (desert southwest through the Canadian Rockies) is definitely my favorite as I believe the most beautiful scenery in the country is in this roughly fourth. Of the other places I lived, I probably enjoyed Phoenix the most but I lived there over thirty years ago (we still visit from time to time and I still like the area, but I am done with big metropolitan areas as a home). The climate here is about ideally suited to my tastes.
So armed with all that, good luck to you and your decision.
Great thread. OP have you visited yet? I would visit first before making a move. Santa Fe is a unique and aesthetic city but it's not for everyone, even if they think they might like it. I preferred the Santa Fe of 40 years ago, but that's just me. I don't like the traffic in Santa Fe (I'm from L.A.), but like Ruth said it's gotten better. I haven't been there in 2-3 years. Santa Fe's layout was determined centuries ago by historic streets and roads, and built up around that. It's actually cool IMO. You've probably seen that description in another thread on here.
As for altitude, I lived over the mountains from Santa Fe and further north. It only took me about 21-30 days to get acclimated to the altitude (it was 7300 ft where I was), and I have COPD. I was doing heavy outdoor work too, so that was part of the acclimation process. Staying hydrated you'd likely not have too much of a problem. It really wasn't a problem for me past the first week.
This is all some fantastic feedback to my original post, so thank you all for having taken the time!
If one common theme had to be picked out from each reply, it would seem to be that it's hard to identify another place *exactly* like it. And that's OK! First of all, I mean, every place is "a little" bit different from others, and that's before we begin to consider a place -- such as Santa Fe -- that has so *much* about it which is unique. Second of all, that, in itself, can be an attraction to certain types, and I'm one of those types...
So I haven't actually visited yet, simply due to a random choice in routing. About a decade ago I did spend some time passing through the state, up out of the TX Panhandle, thru Artesia then west to Cloudcroft and Alamogordo; up through Ruidoso, Carrizozo, Vaughn and Las Vegas; then onto snoozer I-25 into CO. (Came back out of CO through Four Corners.) Now while I would definitely visit first, everything I've heard here so far is encouraging. A few quick bullet points, and please do not interpret an omission of anything to mean that any specific input did not hold value (it *all* did):
-- Crime: I, too, have read (mostly on here) of some complaints. OTOH an admittedly brief look at standardized statistics does not seem to back this up. I've lived in places with LOTS of crime so I strongly doubt I'd consider Santa Fe to be particularly threatening, if at all.
-- Size / traffic: I am sure there has been notable growth while looking back, however many or few years one uses as a sample. I experienced this during my time in Boise, ID, where there was noticeable growth even just the very short time I was there, much to the chagrin of long-time residents. But I had come from several much bigger places already, so even at the level it had reached, there and then, it still felt pleasantly manageable. Suspect similar here.
-- Cost of living: I've lived in "affordable" places and I've lived in "expensive" places. Even in the more costly places, a proper "value" can still be determined if enough of the important boxes are checked: nightlife, culture, "feel", etc. Whatever matters most to someone. From what I think I know so far, I think you get what you pay for there, and if, within your means, you pay more than other places, it's worth it.
-- Nature: thinking back to my aforementioned south-to-north trip, skipping SF just to the east, I know that there are some real neat places and not terribly far away. And even if one is looking for a bigger change of scenery, well, one can cover some serious ground out on those Interstates, if one feels the need to make a dash to a neighboring state for something different.
-- Nightlife / culture / "feel": again, from afar, it seems like the bar / restaurant / arts scene is ideal. Culture, I've been an "outsider" in Native environments (both Lower 48 and Alaska). Folks who typically complain that they "can't fit in" are probably failing to demonstrate a proper respect for, and even a basic interest in learning more about, the cultures that they feel are excluding them; will not be a problem for me. Re: the Latino influence, I taught myself Spanish in order to wring the most out of my several visits to Mexico -- including a three-month solo motorcycle ride through the heart of the country, no gringos within a hundred miles -- so I'd enjoy this as well. "Feel"? I suspect I'd absolutely love it...
Originally thought I might be trying a move as soon as around the new year, though current circumstances may now dictate spring, or even as late as Labor Day. Yes, almost a year hence I know! :-( But this exploratory research was to make sure I wouldn't be misleading myself to keep SF in the sights, and with these replies I am confident that I would not be. So again, I say thanks to each of you thus far, and when the time comes to fine-tune a plan to visit, I will w/o question come back on here to bounce some ideas around. All for now!
This will probably be long, so let me apologize up front. We've lived here for over six years now. I have lived in St. Louis, Phoenix, the Bay Area, the Washington DC area, and Asheville NC prior to coming here. Every place is a mix of good and bad. The important part is that the good meshes with what you want or are interested in and that you can tolerate the bad. Good and bad are also very subjective.
Despite moving around as much as I have and having spent time in other places, I don't think Santa Fe compares to anything. The combination of Native American and Spanish cultures is rather unique, the place dates back 600 years, and then combine that with 7,000 feet of elevation.
On the subject of elevation, people seem to either adjust to it or they don't. We never found it to be a problem, and been coming here every couple of years since 2000 prior to moving here. But, I have seen other people struggle and some eventually leave because between the elevation and the low humidity, they simply could not adjust. And one of the things commonly told to visitors is to drink a lot of water. I talked to an EMT one day who said that probably at least 70% of the people they treat are dehydrated along with anything else they may be treating.
Likewise, people with allergies can have some problems. We have things growing naturally that most have not been exposed to before (chamisa is a common culprit) and some people react to them very badly.
I would compare Santa Fe to Asheville NC in that both have a focus on the arts and have many very good restaurants. They are of similar size. But Santa Fe is much more established and "sure of itself" if that makes any sense. We lived in Asheville for ten years immediately prior to moving here, and my quip from day one was that its major challenge was "figuring out what it wanted to be when it grew up." What drove us out is it grew up (the influx of people was far greater than it has been in Santa Fe), but there was never a plan so things got much more like a bigger city than we liked.....and we knew it was only going to get worse (which it has). Santa Fe is what it is, and that identity is fairly cemented in its culture and heritage. Both Santa Fe and Asheville have very different cultures, despite some similarities.
Traffic here is rather minor league compared to any big city. Cerillos Road can be aggravating, but even that is tame by comparison. Visitors can jam up the streets near the plaza, which SunGrins pointed out are connected by streets that have their roots almost 600 years ago. Parking near the plaza can sometimes be a challenge, but I can only think of one time that I abandoned a plan because I could not find a place to park and that was a place for lunch that I decided to try on a whim, and I knew there was little parking in the area. Now when there is a major event around the plaza, just avoid that area and park a little further out or find the "hidden gems" for parking. All of this is less of an issue for us than Asheville was. I have no point of comparison beyond that.
New Mexico in general is great for day trips, as you probably already know. Santa Fe's proximity to Albuquerque is convenient, and likewise the ability to get to southern Colorado with a decent drive is also convenient.
Santa Fe is not perfect, nor is any place (you might be amazed at the number of people who seem to be looking for perfect). We have some of the same problems as any other city, large or small. Just scale them down for our size. No place is free of problems. It can be hard to get people to work on the house (don't show up), but that is an epidemic everywhere, I think. Over time you will develop a list of people/companies that are dependable both in showing up and doing good work.
The vast majority of people here are pleasant and helpful.
My own biases that skew my view on things are that we very much appreciate the Native American culture, which is pretty much a necessity here. The artwork and traditions are extremely interesting and we respect them. Having lived in every timezone, the Mountain (desert southwest through the Canadian Rockies) is definitely my favorite as I believe the most beautiful scenery in the country is in this roughly fourth. Of the other places I lived, I probably enjoyed Phoenix the most but I lived there over thirty years ago (we still visit from time to time and I still like the area, but I am done with big metropolitan areas as a home). The climate here is about ideally suited to my tastes.
So armed with all that, good luck to you and your decision.
I take exception to some of your comments about Asheville. Asheville knows exactly who it is: a progressive, diverse, quirky, artsy, mountain town. We travelled for over 10 years throughout the U.S. for a place to retire. We seriously considered Sante Fe, but ruled it out due to the elevation, low humidity, barren-looking landscape, homogeneity, etc….. By describing Sante Fe as being ‘sure of itself’ I’m assuming you’re referring to the strong, dominant Spanish culture. This is viewed by some as a strength and others as a drawback.
I take exception to some of your comments about Asheville. Asheville knows exactly who it is: a progressive, diverse, quirky, artsy, mountain town. We travelled for over 10 years throughout the U.S. for a place to retire. We seriously considered Sante Fe, but ruled it out due to the elevation, low humidity, barren-looking landscape, homogeneity, etc….. By describing Sante Fe as being ‘sure of itself’ I’m assuming you’re referring to the strong, dominant Spanish culture. This is viewed by some as a strength and others as a drawback.
Santa Fe is anything but homogeneous. But I agree that Asheville also is interesting.
In most any city, state or area there is going to be a predominant culture or ethnic group, i.e. in Santa Fe, Asheville or some other place. It's correct, though that they are not homogeneous. If one finds the predominant culture and/or ethnic group not to their liking then of course they wouldn't choose to live there. It all depends upon what they are looking for. I myself go for terrain and weather in my older age, whereas in my youth I wanted to live in places like San Francisco with a crazy good music scene (and other things too). Some people try the desert and more arid areas and find they don't like it. Now that I live in the SE I don't mind all the trees, greenery and waterways, but I prefer an arid climate with more heterogeneous terrain. It's very pretty here though, and the people are very nice. As for Santa Fe, it's a very interesting city but it isn't for me - too much like L.A. or other big city. I prefer rural NM with critters. But one can live just outside Santa Fe in some very lovely areas close to Santa Fe. Best of both worlds. Gotta deal with the weather though! And the wind.
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