Looking for some info from a realtor and / or notary (real estate, insurance)

[Picshooter]

We are trying to help my MIL out regarding a Real Estate transaction that involve a hostile relative.

We were asked by the closing attorney to get this person to sign a warranty deed and another piece of paper and have it notarized. The lawyer handling the closing sent the warranty deed to me in a PDF, that I printed. The notary refused saying the warranty deed had to be original.
From my understanding the Notary was notarizing his signature and those of two witnesses, nothing more.

To add a bit of humor... The person needing to sign claims to have lost their ID, hence this specific notary. But the notary "knows" this person and was willing if the "original" paperwork could be provided.

Can anyone confirm? Thanks.

[bbronston]

None of the agents can provide you with either legal advice or opinions but I can say that, based on your description, I don't understand the notary's objection. Since you are already working with an attorney, that attorney should answer your question and, if needed, talk with the notary.

[Picshooter]

Thanks, That's what I thought. The notary is attesting to the signature.The problem is that the signature needed belongs to an irrational person, who claims to have lost his wallet and does not have any other valid ID, so no other notary in their right mind would / should do it.
Which leads me to really question the Notary. Even if she does "know" the person from regular visits to the notary's place of business, I don't know if she really knows the correct legal name. But she was willing to notarize a signature. I don't get it.
The phrase "no good deed goes unpunished" really fits this situation.

Thanks for the replies.

Originally Posted by ZeroSumGain

What a fool. The notary is attesting to the signature and stated identity of WHO is SIGNING, whatever the document is.


The notary has his nose out of joint it seems. It doesn't matter if he thinks the document is the ORIGINAL WARRANTY DEED...none of his duty or business.


He's notarizing a SIGNATURE, not NORTARIZING a DOCUMENT . Go to another notary, and show him the SINGLE PAGE (signature page) and he doesn't need to read the entire document or letter, or anything else.


A notary is attesting to genuine signature in this matter, not providing some sort of "legal blessing or endorsement" of ANYTHING.

[Picshooter]

This person has no insurance of any sort, Has no DL (does not drive as far as I know)and is so unorganized he will not be able to provide any valid iD in any sort of timely matter. But he certainly know how to work the system.As far as being known by the notary I can only surmise she knows him by his first name.
There is nothing in this for us other than helping out my wife's mom. At this point he seems to be choosing to avoid signing. He is only hurting (financially) his own mother. Nice guy.

Originally Posted by ZeroSumGain

Surely, the affiant has some sort of identification documents that most notaries would accept...insurance identification combined with other documents - a myriad of them, witnesses, court records, original marriage license, birth record, family bible, school records, diplomas, other signed contracts (originals), passport (even expired US) voter's identifications cards etc etc etc - or go down to the DMV and just get a picture ID from the State.


Something is just not kosher here. IF the affiant is "personally known" to the notary, that is sufficient for the notary to attest to the signature of ANY document ! what does the notary CARE about the contents of the entire document, when her role to only to attest to the identity of the person signing a page ? The notary is full of it.

[beninfl]

I dont know if this will help, but it may help. An unnotarized oath is a legal alternative solution to a notary. It's in the Florida Statutes...... I havent researched it, or ever used it, other than what I've pasted below. So do you own homework.

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Question and Answer - Notary Education - Florida Department of State


What is an unnotarized oath?

In a 1993 case, the Florida Supreme Court addressed the issue of "unnotarized oaths." State v. Shearer, 617 So.2d (Fla. App. 5 Dist. 1993). This case may significantly affect the role of notaries in Florida because it recognized an acceptable alternative oath that may be used for verified or sworn written documents. A person using the alternative oath would not need the services of a notary public or other official authorized to administer oaths.

The alternative method of making verified (or sworn) documents is set forth in section 92.525, Florida Statutes, and provides that a signed written declaration can substitute for a notarized oath if it contains the following language: "Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have read the foregoing [document] and that the facts stated in it are true." The written declaration must be printed or typed at the end of or immediately below the document being verified and above the signature of the person making the declaration. By signing a document with that language, a person can make a sworn written statement without having it notarized.

The Court noted that because the oath starts with the words, "Under penalties of perjury," a person who falsely signs such an oath could be convicted of perjury, just as one who signs and falsely swears to a document before a notary public or other official authorized to administer oaths. For this reason, the Court concluded that the alternative oath was acceptable for the purpose of filing a motion required to be sworn to by the court rules.

The alternative oath was enacted by the Legislature in 1986 but has not gained much popularity. Perhaps, the Shearer case will cause an increased usage of "unnotarized oaths."