Study: It costs $80,000 for family of 4 to live modestly in Sarasota (Bradenton: real estate, coupon)

[wondermint2]

Study: It costs $80,000 for family of 4 to live modestly in Sarasota - News - Sarasota Herald-Tribune - Sarasota, FL

But living expenses greatly outweigh average income in region.

Sarasota-Manatee ranks among the costliest places to live in Florida.

A Sarasota family of two parents and two children can expect to pay $80,613 annually on basic costs in order to secure just an “adequate yet modest standard of living.” That same household in Manatee would fork over $77,800.

[beach43ofus]

There are 0 Counties in Florida where the average household income exceeds the average cost of living. I went to this web site link mentioned in the article, and tested 20+ County's. I tried Palm Beach to Hardee. Rich and poor. After 1 hour of testing various County's cost of living, and then going to wikipedia's median family income for that County, NONE passed the test they are applying as an affordability indicator.

Hardee County (fairly rural County) had an average cost for family of 4 of $70,655, and wikipedia shows median household income $32,377, so it's worse off than Sarasota.

Thus, this math model is flawed, and being used as propaganda (most likely scenario), or everyone in Florida is piling up debt like the Federal Government. What is the goal of this propaganda? Any thoughts?

To all of those like ID3modem, and all the rest of us, who studied hard, worked hard, took chances, saved and scrimped pinched pennies, and invested well, congratulations on your accomplishments!

B-T-W, I use a $30 flip phone, dont have cable tv, shop at Wal Mart (and soon Aldi), and have been debt free for quite some time. I've bought clothes at Goodwill, and gotten haircuts at the Barber Colleges for years for $5. My wife is a coupon queen, and got so much free stuff she donated a lot of it. We bought 1 new car in our lives, and our Son now drives it in College 15 years later.

We always maxed out 401K's, IRA's, 529 College Savings plan, Health Care Savings plan, while living so far below our means, it would make people laugh out loud at us. Now, we are the ones laughing! Gotta go, this is the time each day I celebrate the consequences of our wise and highly disciplined decisions with a hand rolled cigar and glass of 12 year old Single Malt Scotch. Cheers

[beach43ofus]

Wow! I just saw the Wall Street Journal article about the latest US Census Bureau population flow estimates.

Florida's gaining population like crazy, especially the coastal areas like Bradenton-Sarasota-Venice.

So, if this areas are so unaffordable, as the March 20th article claims, then why do the population inflows keep growing?

I think it's because the Herald Tribune's article from March 20th citing the Liberal/Union Labor think-tank's (Economic Policy Institute) "study" focusses solely upon a families annual cash flows, and not its income statement, or balance sheet.

It fails to take into account that many of the people moving in to Florida are bringing significant wealth along with them. They are using this wealth nestegg to fund their retirement. So, they are spending more than they make, and using the retirement funds to fill in the cash flow shortfall. This disposable income cash inflow is great for Florida's economy.

If you dont already possess significant assets/wealth, you can't sustain these negative cash outflows for long, and will need to take on increasing debt, increase income while also decreasing costs, or move away.

How does Florida keep enough retiree-support labor here in an area that was built for, and is continuing to be built for, affluent retirees is the real challenge. This issue is going to become more problematic moving foward, and will eventually start to significantly impact retiree/snowbird's ways of life. Until businesses start closing due to labor shortages, I don't see much changing. I do think that time will come sooner than most think.

[davephan]

You can also try putting your county name into the search box to compare it to the county in Florida. Our county in Minnesota says the cost of living is almost $108,000, which is also an over estimate. But when you compare the calculation from the Washington County in Minnesota to Sarasota, the $80,000 amount is about 74% of the cost of living. So, according to the cost of living calculator, it's relatively much cheaper to live in Sarasota than where we currently live in Minnesota.

Most cost of living calculators say the same story for us, that the cost of living is less expensive in Florida is much less than the cost of living in Florida. But you'd also have to add the condition that you're not choosing a location too close to the coastline, where the cost of living might be much higher in Florida, since real estate and insurance will cost much more when you are close to the coastline in Florida. This also depends on your income stream while working, or your retirement income stream. The higher the income, the more you'll save not paying the state income taxes in Florida.

https://www.epi.org/resources/budget

[MattMN]

Originally Posted by davephan

You can also try putting your county name into the search box to compare it to the county in Florida. Our county in Minnesota says the cost of living is almost $108,000, which is also an over estimate. But when you compare the calculation from the Washington County in Minnesota to Sarasota, the $80,000 amount is about 74% of the cost of living
https://www.epi.org/resources/budget

One comment after playing around with the default setting - look at child care costs. Those are way higher in a state like MN vs FL. So for those who may no longer have kids to take care of, be sure to remove them from the calculator to get a more accurate number. Also, if you do have kids but don't use daycare, you could subtract "child care" costs.

2 adults with 0 children drops the numbers from $108k to $56K in Washington County, MN, from $81k to $50k in Sarasota County, and from $78 to $48k in Manatee County.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by MattMN

One comment after playing around with the default setting - look at child care costs. Those are way higher in a state like MN vs FL. So for those who may no longer have kids to take care of, be sure to remove them from the calculator to get a more accurate number. Also, if you do have kids but don't use daycare, you could subtract "child care" costs.

2 adults with 0 children drops the numbers from $108K to $56K in Washington County, MN, from $81K to $50K in Sarasota County, and from $78K to $48K in Manatee County.

You subtracted the child care twice! The child care item is for two children. So, the 2 adults with 0 children would drop from $108K to $83K in Washington County, MN, from $81K to $68K in Sarasota County, FL, and from $78K to $66K in Manatee County, FL. But the other items would also increase because other costs go up when you add two children to the family!

The child care costs about half in Florida than in Minnesota. I assume that must be due to the lower wages for daycare workers, and maybe a lower operating costs for daycare centers, than in Minnesota.

Another way to think about having two children is the way it can impact your long term retirement savings. For example, I know a person who has children and spends about $24K a year for daycare. For the past 15 years, instead of putting $24K in to his retirement account each year, he puts in $0 per year. So, he didn't even get the company matched money.

So, you need to think carefully about having children, because having children could seriously impact your financial future. Although, many times you see single mothers in their mid 20's having 5 children on the TV newscasts, each child probably by different fathers, none of fathers in the picture. But in those situations, the government is the father and the tax payers all have to pay for those children.

What really matters is the relative cost of living differences between where you are living now, to where you plan to live in Florida, if you plan to move to Florida. There's also more than one way to budget your expenses. Our income is significantly higher than our living expenses. So we pay ourselves first, investing money, then live on a fraction of our income. If your income isn't high enough, you need to either increase your income by making your skill set more valuable, or reduce your living expenses. Too many people live too close to the line, living paycheck to paycheck, with little or no savings.

[MattMN]

Originally Posted by davephan

You subtracted the child care twice! The child care item is for two children. So, the 2 adults with 0 children would drop from $108K to $83K in Washington County, MN, from $81K to $68K in Sarasota County, FL, and from $78K to $66K in Manatee County, FL. But the other items would also increase because other costs go up when you add two children to the family!

No, I did not subtract twice. The numbers I provided were directly from their website, using 2 Adults and 0 Children. This was the scenario I was providing for anyone who no longer has kids in the home - empty nesters or retirees.

I was not trying to provide the actual numbers for a family with 2 children and no child care. That is a different scenario I wasn't diving into, but certainly can have many additional factors as you mention. Your numbers actually are for 2 adults + 2 children with no formal daycare charges. That's what I alluded to in my post when I stated one could "subtract child care costs."


Regarding your other comments, sure having kids will affect your overall finances - both month-to-month and long-term. But I wouldn't really recommend someone perform a cost analysis to determine whether or not to have children! How are you going to measure the value of having kids? If you're in a loving marriage and want kids, you find a way to make it work.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by MattMN

No, I did not subtract twice. The numbers I provided were directly from their website, using 2 Adults and 0 Children. This was the scenario I was providing for anyone who no longer has kids in the home - empty nesters or retirees.

I was not trying to provide the actual numbers for a family with 2 children and no child care. That is a different scenario I wasn't diving into, but certainly can have many additional factors as you mention. Your numbers actually are for 2 adults + 2 children with no formal daycare charges. That's what I alluded to in my post when I stated one could "subtract child care costs."


Regarding your other comments, sure having kids will affect your overall finances - both month-to-month and long-term. But I wouldn't really recommend someone perform a cost analysis to determine whether or not to have children! How are you going to measure the value of having kids? If you're in a loving marriage and want kids, you find a way to make it work.

OK. I didn't see the place to set the children to zero on the web site. Good point to calculate the numbers for empty nesters or retirees. That setting must also include the other costs, besides daycare, for having the two children. I agree that having children can add value to the parents lives, and that value is tough to measure. But at the same time, too many people have a boatload of children, who can't even afford to have one child. Then, the government becomes the father and the taxpayers are saddled with the financial burden for the bad choices made.

[Concert D Major]

Impoverished parents having kids they can't afford to raise only fuels the cycle of poverty. There are no government programs that can babysit you 24/7 and tell you no, no, don't do that yet. Practice safe sex, get off the drugs, obey the law, figure out a stable relationship before having the kids, finish college first and settle in to some kind of a legitimate career first. Then have your kids. Otherwise, your children will live an almost guaranteed life of childhood poverty.

No one can watch over people's shoulders 24/7 and make you do those things. Each person has to take responsibility and make smart decisions. Otherwise, the cycle of poverty will continue. Too many working single moms that don't know where they baby daddy at that should have never had kids in the first place.

[LKJ1988]

Yikes. It don't cost me $8k a year to live.