Current Opinions on Grand Palms HOA (Miami, Tampa: real estate market, 2013, apartment)

[DragonflyMom]

Originally Posted by SoFloGator

Macrodome2...are you in Island Walk? I was very interested in it until I read some very negative comments about the management there.

I’m in IslandWalk...do you have some questions I could answer? I’m very happy here and overall have very few complaints.

[ITtech]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

In your opinion, which new home builder isn't overpriced?

Are any design centers a good deal? How many have you dealt with?

Wouldn't you say that reading the Docs would be a great idea in any community a buyer is considering?

I think the best way to learn is to speak to people (at least 3) who have lived in a community you are considering for at least 3 months, and listen carefully to what they say. I'm not sure a public forum such as this is the best way to do that, but it is the easiest.

We approached people in the amentities areas while alone, and not with sales folks in tow. People around the pool areas were the best sources since they were not working out, or playing tennis, pickleball, ect.. People walking or riding bikes around the community were also very approachable.

DEAD WRONG, the "best way" to learn is to read and comprehend the documents your self. Never depend on the interpretation of a third stupid party. Then get your questions answered, if any, by a damn attorney.

[ITtech]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

Which new home builder isn't overpriced? Impossible to know for certain in the short-term (now). Ask me 5 years from now looking back at the homes being sold today, & then I would have some chance at answering this question accurately. The value of any good is established when it's sold, and the more times it's sold, the better the value can be established. Is the price for an ounce of Gold overpriced today? Impossible to determine. You can guesstimate based upon history, but you cannot know for 100% sure.



So, in summary, Shekkie singling out Neal is rubbish. Neal is one of the few builders (maybe the only 1) that divulge their monthly sales data to local media. That would indicate to me that they feel good about how they are faring in this market. Why don't all the builders release monthly sales figures? Are they embarassed by their low #'s? If you were a new home builder, and you felt like you ranked low in comparison to other local builders, wouldn't try to hide your # of units sold? Obviously, Neal feels pretty good about its figures.

Neal has its challenges, just like all the rest, but for anyone to trash them w/o citing specific examples is unfair at best. When I drive around new homes communities, I see more SOLD signs in Neal's communities than any other. To me, that is a good indicator, and drives me to seek out homeowners in those communities to talk to. How long have they lived there? How do they like their new home? How would they grade the builder? I've had many of these discussions at several new home builders' developments, and Neal customers' satisfaction level seems to be amongt the highest. Those are just my findings, I suggest you do your own interviews to see what you find.

As an educated fact checker, I find Shekkie's statements to be : MOSTLY FALSE

A couple of my own comments:


Conflating the price of GOLD with house prices is non sequitur, and foolish.


Any casual, but longtime resident (not a relative newcomer), knows that Neal Communities is clearly overpriced, and their "design center" scam is a pure profit center, and misleading as hell.


Publishing "sales figures" is meaningless. NEAL is NOT a publicly traded firm. You're absolutely in error if you actually believe that larger successful builders such as Pulte, Toll, Lennar, etc do not publish their sales figures. These companies are publicly traded companies ! Neal is private and is under NO requirement to have its "sales figures" AUDITED. They pretty much can "claim" anything about their damn "sales figures", or how they calculate what constitutes a current "sale". You as a private citizen are not in a position to review Neal's "accounting, you get spoonfed what they say is true.


Additionally, "seeing more SOLD SIGNS" in Neal's communities is a flimsy if not downright STUPID indicator of anything. Neal may also have more stupid buyers, or gullible buyers. Neal places a "sold sign" on anything that may have a "contract" on, but may, in fact, never "closes" due to a lot of variables (including financing.....NEAL has its own mortgage arm now as well....but they can falsify at times that they have mostly "cash buyers"). Looks can be deceiving...seeing "signs" can be too.


Also, talking to fool buyers who, themselves paid too much are not likely to admit to YOU that they are now "unhappy" about anything. People never like admitting to a stranger that they have miscalculated or paid too much for ANYTHING....whether a car, truck, diamond ring, a cruise, a custom suit, or a filet mignon. You have to be crazy to overly rely on what someone says after they are already on the hook.
Buyers are LIARS.


Finally, I know many bankers in this area, from Tampa, down to Naples, and all that I've spoken with lately (over the summer) firmly believe that most of these properties are insanely priced...particularly the communities now going up near Naples, Estero, Bonita.


You have to be a chump to believe the hype/marketing of Neal Communities...most of which have cookie cutter floor plans with the same or similar elevations, just like most of Lennar's.....Lennar however offers a standard package of amenities...Neal Communities screws you with their "design center". Even a blind buyer can see that.

[beach43ofus]

Does any new home builder not have a design center where prices are overinflated? Please list a few.

More sold signs don't mean anything? Why not?

So, bankers are real estate experts? Didn't bankers cause the housing bubble?

[Loriann2fla]

Does anyone know when the fiscal year ends for Neal? I’m wondering if any of the upcoming months will be the best time for incentives as they close out their year.

[Sunshine Rules]

Originally Posted by Loriann2fla

Does anyone know when the fiscal year ends for Neal? I’m wondering if any of the upcoming months will be the best time for incentives as they close out their year.

Neal, like many local builders, tends to offer their "best" incentives during the summer months. As we head into the fall, the incentives tend to go away and builders start increasing prices as they head into the winter months, which is the busiest time of the year for sales here. Three local builders have just done small price increases this week alone.

Here's a link to a recent story in the local paper regarding Neal's sales: http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20...second-quarter

[beach43ofus]

Neal increases pricing on their homes $2,000-$3,000 each month (the increases are not always the same amount), usually closer to $3,000.

A new home model of theirs we liked last December had a base price of $413,000 and today the base price is $435,000, 8 months later. So, it has been increased by $22,000 (5.33%) in 8 months, or $2,750/month. This is just for the base home, and doesn't include any lot premium or upgrades.

I don't know if they also boost the lot upgrade prices and upgrades or not, but I suspect they do. That information is not shown on Neal's web site, but the base home prices are.

Also, interest rates are trending up, so if I were in the market for a Neal home, I'd be buying sooner, and not later. Also, I'd be looking at all the resales before buying brand new as there could be an attractive re-sale price for someone who must sell now for whatever reason. Look at days on market, and compare the resale pricing to Neal's brand new pricing.

Finding a great deal would be easier on a re-sale than through Neal because in neighborhoods as large as most of Neal's, they'll always be at least 1 distressed/highly motivated seller. The slow season is almost over for new home builders in this area as Sunshine said, so while its still possible that they could run a sale, it's not likely.

Just a suggestion, don't buy a new home until you have cash in hand from the sale of your existing home (if you own a home now). A neighbor of ours got bitten by a sale of her existing home when her deal fell through, and she already committed to buy the new home, so now she has 2 homes, and it's causing her great distress. She got to keep the earnest money, but it was too small of a sum to cover her losses that are still piling up. After you close, your buyer may be willing to lease your old home back to you month to month until your new home is completed so you won't have to move twice. Even if you wind up renting until your new home is built and you have to move twice, and/or put things in storage, that is a much better alternative to owning 2 homes when you only want 1.

[macrodome2]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

I don't know if they also boost the lot upgrade prices and upgrades or not, but I suspect they do. That information is not shown on Neal's web site, but the base home prices are.

Oh they sure do boost lot premiums. We were considering a home in Grand Palm back in 2012 and got a lot of pressure from the sales representative because the lot premium on the lot we were considering was going from $30K to $40K. We ended up buying a resale. I also understand that Neal makes a lot of his profit off the design center options.

[beach43ofus]

Is there any large volume new home builder who doesn't make a lot of their profits off their design center? If they don't, then the most likely reason is that they are not offering much customization. Instead, they are building more homogenous cookie-cutter homes that you accept pretty much as is...or not. We prefer to have more choice.

I know Lennar doesn't offer nearly as much customization as Neal. We learned that in our tours of Gran Paradiso. That was why we crossed that one off our list. The lack of mature trees there was also a turn off.

Best way to take the design center costs out of the equation is to compare move-in ready homes builder to builder at the same price points.

[ITtech]

Ah yes, you are correct...the Neal's tactic of the old "premium lot" price scam...lol....and the scam monthly incremental increasing price scheme...lol


Few national, publicly trade builders perform this "dance". Pure offensive stuff tailored for newcomers who are stupid, desperate or have too much cash on hand and are in a hurry to get screwed...ha ha


BTW, in today's WALL STREET JOURNAL (Thursday August 30), and just for grins:


Headlines : "Home Builder Shares MIss Out on Rally"

DR Horton down 12%
Pulte down 15%
Lennar down 17%
Toll down 23%

...Average home prices in major metropolitan areas have slowed for three consecutive months...slowing home-price increases haven't done much to draw buyers in the market...existing home sales have fallen for four consecutive months which is the longest slide in five years....data on Wednesday showed the number of homes across the US that went under contractl unexpectedly fell in July declining on an annual basis for the 7th consecutive month according to the National Association of Realtors...


Yes, this is Florida specifically, but I haven't spoken to a single real estate sales person around here that hasn't seen a slowing, plus too high prices....and yes, I'm a banker and see that plain as day as well...



Any way you cut it, on a rational basis, a smart buyer knows that Neal homes are stupidly priced and the design center is a total rip.


Also, yes indeedy Neal Communities should be picked on and singled out lol...it's offensive economically