Property Tax Creep (Sarasota, Bradenton, North Port: sales, real estate market, how much)

[beach43ofus]

I found this article link on the Florida forum.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...icago-lead-way

The same fates awaits us right here in our area too. The SRQ Herald Tribune has run expose articles on this in the past, but nothing ever happens.

Its not the rank 'n file government workers plans that are the issue, it's the mid-to-high level elite positions. That's where the waste, corruption, cronyism, & abuse lurks.

The City of Sarasota's Pension plan is an underfunded poorly managed mess (so says the Herald-Tribune).

Local government pensions, healthcare plans, vacation policy's, comp plans, excessively high salary's, are the #1 driver of our property tax rates. Property tax rates impact real estate sales & prices.

I fear this topic thread will get terminated as being national politics, but it's not. Yes, it is playing out all across America, so in that regard it is national, but its local city & county governments run amuck. It's local government waste & abuse of taxpayer money, and is escalating our property taxes and other taxes and fees too (parking meters will soon be everywhere!). Where does it all end? Take a look at New Jersey, or Detroit.

I'm not buying the growth argument either. We now have CDD's that fund most new developments.

Don't we deserve full transparency on ALL of these local property tax drivers? It's our money, and these people work for us...right? I read the City of Sarasota's and Sarasota County's budgets, and you will NOT find these line items broken out, or detailed. Instead, they are hidden.

I'd like to see our local newspapers do a deep dive into all of this. How many retired government elite are we paying for, and how much are they getting. What was their lump sum payout when they retired? What % of their salary are they getting? How many years did they have to work to be fully vested? What are current elite being paid, and what is the vacation scale, and unused vacation time banking policy's? Are there privacy clauses in the elite government workers employment contracts? What fees are the pension fund money managers charging, and how does that compare with the private sector company's?

I'm not advocating taking any of it away from pensioners, but having the answers to these questions would put an abrupt end to these abuses in the future which is why they are cloaked in strict secrecy.

If all of this were to become fully transparent, I strongly suspect that we'd all be shocked beyond belief.

[UTCLWR]

Pensions are unsustainable. It's why so many union companies have folded or diminished their footprint in the country.

You cannot keep paying people who do not work. It's a Ponzi scheme at best.

[beach43ofus]

Originally Posted by UTCLWR

Pensions are unsustainable. It's why so many union companies have folded or diminished their footprint in the country.

You cannot keep paying people who do not work. It's a Ponzi scheme at best.

Millions are having to take 50% of what they were promised. Read this:

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/28/67167...nk-of-collapse

Detroit set the legal precedent for pension reductions. Chicago's pension fund is the next to collapse and the state of Illinois can't rescue Chicago because the Illinois pension plan is also about to collapse.

New Jersey and Kentucky are also nearing collapse.

Since there are so many retired pensioners here in our area from these cities and states, it could adversely impact our local economy, and real estate market in the years ahead.

[UTCLWR]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

Millions are having to take 50% of what they were promised. Read this:

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/28/67167...nk-of-collapse

Detroit set the legal precedent for pension reductions. Chicago's pension fund is the next to collapse and the state of Illinois can't rescue Chicago because the Illinois pension plan is also about to collapse.

New Jersey and Kentucky are also nearing collapse.

Since there are so many retired pensioners here in our area from these cities and states, it could adversely impact our local economy, and real estate market in the years ahead.

You hit the key part right there.

[d4g4m]

If you stay in your house forever, tax increases can not exceed 3% a year. But if you move or are a new resident, the property is re-assessed at near purchase price. With so many people moving here, that's where cities/counties are getting their new revenue.
States like NJ are having problems with funding pensions because they are having a net loss in residents.

[beach43ofus]

If our property tax increases by 3% each year, it would double in ~23.5 years. We could very well stay in the new home we just had built for 23.5 years, so the 3% cap is too high IMHO. 3%/yr = 100% increase in 23.5 yrs. (due to compounding). It should be capped at 2% max increase/yr.. I realize its unlikely to rise by the max 3%/yr, but any possibility should be eliminated.

Population outflow aside, NJ is also having problems funding pensions because many pensions were too lucrative. I know a retired law enforcement pensioner who became fully vested after just 20 years. His pension pays 80% of his last years salary, and it has a cost of living escalator. That's great for him, but its unsustainable for future taxpayers who could be paying him not to work for the next 35 years (if he lives to be 85) after working just 20 years!

We need a LOT more transparency on what compensation deals Sarasota & Manatee County's are offering, and the city's of Brandenton, Sarasota, North Port, Venice, Bradenton Beach, Holmes Beach, Anna Maria, & Palmetto.

There should be an oversight review board for each county & city in this area that are made up of its citizens to make sure these places don't wind up like NJ. Why is this cloaked in secrecy? It's OUR money, and they work for US!

We have no idea what we are paying our local government employees...are you comfortable with that? Where is the oversight? Are there ANY checks & balances? If we are relying upon elected officials to provide this oversight alone, we are exposing ourselves to corruption. There must be citizen oversight. I'm hoping there is, and I'm just too new around here to know about it. If there is not, and we remain complacent, this area will wind up like Essex County NJ.

[bbronston]

Originally Posted by d4g4m

If you stay in your house forever, tax increases can not exceed 3% a year. But if you move or are a new resident, the property is re-assessed at near purchase price. With so many people moving here, that's where cities/counties are getting their new revenue.
States like NJ are having problems with funding pensions because they are having a net loss in residents.

The assessed value (of homestead property) cannot increase more than 3% but I’ve not seen anything that would limit the various taxing authorities from increasing the millage rate enough to result in actual dollar increases of more than 3%. If a current resident has Save Our Homes savings from that 3% cap, they can carry that savings to the next homestead property based on a fairly simple formula.

[beach43ofus]

Originally Posted by bbronston

The assessed value (of homestead property) cannot increase more than 3% but I’ve not seen anything that would limit the various taxing authorities from increasing the millage rate enough to result in actual dollar increases of more than 3%. If a current resident has Save Our Homes savings from that 3% cap, they can carry that savings to the next homestead property based on a fairly simple formula.

bbronston, you know more than I do about this stuff, and have been here longer. Are there any local gov't compensation oversight in any County or City here other than elected officials? thx

[bbronston]

Sorry, not sure I understand what you mean.

[beach43ofus]

The biggest part of property taxes is governmenet worker pension and healthcare costs. Do you know if there are any watchdogs overseeing any of that for the County's and Cities w/in this forum area? How do we know our government workers compensation plans are in-line with other areas?