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Old 04-27-2009, 08:32 AM
 
Location: North Port
325 posts, read 951,652 times
Reputation: 101

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The question was about about repiping. The statement was told to me from Two of my Plumbing Contractors on recent re-pipes they just finished. There choice is PVC piping on any new construction or additions. Maybe price? But, I was told that Copper did not hold up as well. To each his own.
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Punta Gorda and Maryland
6,103 posts, read 14,113,193 times
Reputation: 1241
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbuild View Post
The question was about about repiping. The statement was told to me from Two of my Plumbing Contractors on recent re-pipes they just finished. There choice is PVC piping on any new construction or additions. Maybe price? But, I was told that Copper did not hold up as well. To each his own.
There are a couple of factors here that have caused problems in water piping systems.

In the 80s and 90s, and some earlier, there was a big push for recycling copper, and some of the impurities were allowed to remain in the recycled mix, it wasn't virgin copper. Some fo the impurities contributed to early "pin hole" failures. The same thing with the plastic and pvc piping, they used new and recycled materials here, but they were succeptable to failure do to UV, chlorine, and other natural and treatment chemicals that caused them to become brittle, have pin holes and other failures.

The system SoFLGal mentioned is what we in the multifamily business called a manifold system where a main or larger lateral connects to a manifold and then the branch laterals can be run directly off them to the fixtures, using other piping materials, often flexible tubing. that doesn't require the need for expensive joints and other fittings. This saves material and labor costs, and goes in pretty quickly. It can be fished like electrical wiring in many cases so the amount of cutting and patching work can be minimized. You just need to run it in areas that are not succeptable to freezing which here in SWFL is not a problem.
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:34 AM
 
Location: South Walton Florida
187 posts, read 911,253 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big House View Post
There are a couple of factors here that have caused problems in water piping systems.

In the 80s and 90s, and some earlier, there was a big push for recycling copper, and some of the impurities were allowed to remain in the recycled mix, it wasn't virgin copper. Some fo the impurities contributed to early "pin hole" failures. The same thing with the plastic and pvc piping, they used new and recycled materials here, but they were succeptable to failure do to UV, chlorine, and other natural and treatment chemicals that caused them to become brittle, have pin holes and other failures.

The system SoFLGal mentioned is what we in the multifamily business called a manifold system where a main or larger lateral connects to a manifold and then the branch laterals can be run directly off them to the fixtures, using other piping materials, often flexible tubing. that doesn't require the need for expensive joints and other fittings. This saves material and labor costs, and goes in pretty quickly. It can be fished like electrical wiring in many cases so the amount of cutting and patching work can be minimized. You just need to run it in areas that are not succeptable to freezing which here in SWFL is not a problem.
That sounds like an electrician who "home runs" each circuit which is the only way to do it but, in this manifold setup for plumbing are they "homerunning" every single fixture or just every bath group?
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:41 PM
 
Location: S.W. Coast, Florida
4 posts, read 8,334 times
Reputation: 12
Here's another link from the toolbase site; http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/CaseStud...nholeLeaks.pdf

Not to be confrontational, but the plumbing contracters I've discussed this problem with and the option for repiping voiced their preference with CPVC, specifically the FlowGuard Gold for the repiping application.

Have the insurance policies changed to cover repiping?

Since my last pinhole back in 2006, I had explored 2 options after increasing amount of instances of pinholes in the area were on the rise. Back then the insurance policies wouldn't cover my first option of repiping and besides, alot of installation complaints were surfacing.

The other option was lining my existing piping with an epoxy type coating from from a company called Ace Duraflo. Water Leaks, Pipe Repair, Relining, Rusty Water, ACE DuraFlo's ePIPE
Not sure of the cost today, but back then it was fairly new concept and was more than I wanted to put out at the time. I haven't discounted it yet.

It's still a concern for me because the strong possibility of reoccurring and have been looking into maybe the use of PEX, like SoFlGal's earlier post made reference to. I've been given a contact up in Tampa that's been forwarded to me to hopefully answer some questions I have and if see if viable.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:01 PM
 
Location: South Walton Florida
187 posts, read 911,253 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big House View Post
There are a couple of factors here that have caused problems in water piping systems.

In the 80s and 90s, and some earlier, there was a big push for recycling copper, and some of the impurities were allowed to remain in the recycled mix, it wasn't virgin copper. Some fo the impurities contributed to early "pin hole" failures. The same thing with the plastic and pvc piping, they used new and recycled materials here, but they were succeptable to failure do to UV, chlorine, and other natural and treatment chemicals that caused them to become brittle, have pin holes and other failures.

The system SoFLGal mentioned is what we in the multifamily business called a manifold system where a main or larger lateral connects to a manifold and then the branch laterals can be run directly off them to the fixtures, using other piping materials, often flexible tubing. that doesn't require the need for expensive joints and other fittings. This saves material and labor costs, and goes in pretty quickly. It can be fished like electrical wiring in many cases so the amount of cutting and patching work can be minimized. You just need to run it in areas that are not succeptable to freezing which here in SWFL is not a problem.
I really like CPVC. It assembles real quickly and there's no chance of the plumbing sub burning anything because there's no sweat fittings. I like PEX too.

The only small issue I have with both assemblies is the unkown. After 20 years in construction there have been soooo many products that have come out that were new and improved that turned out to exhibit longevity issues. PEX really seems like a winner becuase the pipe can be installed with no couplings however, has anyone ever seen a plumber actually check each connection with the gauge? I've done PEX on emergency service calls and the manufacturer requires us to gauge every connection. I'm a builder not a plumber so I gauge the fittings 'cause I'm uneasy about flying through. I have to say, I highly doubt plumbers who run PEX everyday really gauge every crimp. I could be wrong...
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Old 05-10-2009, 04:27 PM
 
5 posts, read 21,646 times
Reputation: 13
Default Thanks so much for re-piping responses!

Dear All,
Thanks ever so much for responding to my questions re: the necessity for re-piping in relatively new homes in Sarasota. I sure have learned a lot from your responses! You guys sure are a wonderful source of information and generously willing to share it. A realtor my husband spoke to indicated people have paid up to $60,000 to have this work done -- we were horrorfied! Again, thanks to all.
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Old 05-10-2009, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Punta Gorda and Maryland
6,103 posts, read 14,113,193 times
Reputation: 1241
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAbsolute View Post
I really like CPVC. It assembles real quickly and there's no chance of the plumbing sub burning anything because there's no sweat fittings. I like PEX too.

The only small issue I have with both assemblies is the unkown. After 20 years in construction there have been soooo many products that have come out that were new and improved that turned out to exhibit longevity issues. PEX really seems like a winner becuase the pipe can be installed with no couplings however, has anyone ever seen a plumber actually check each connection with the gauge? I've done PEX on emergency service calls and the manufacturer requires us to gauge every connection. I'm a builder not a plumber so I gauge the fittings 'cause I'm uneasy about flying through. I have to say, I highly doubt plumbers who run PEX everyday really gauge every crimp. I could be wrong...
They don't normally, but they can put a compressor on the line and see if there are any leaks. Since water does not compress, if they put a compressor on it they can regulate it and if it is going to leak it should show up within the first couple hours. You can run the compressor longer. But I would do that test prior to closing up the drywall. It is really a simple easy test to have the plumber do. Up here in MD it is fairly common.

The reason they use the PEX system is because you can fish the tubing much like they would electrical wiring, and home run much of the piping, reducing the amount of drywall penetrations, and not having to make all the connections to fittings it saves a lot of labor.

Judith, if someone is charging that kind of money, it is a rip-off, you can plumb a house new, provide all the plumbing fixtures and the hot water heater, and not pay anywhere near that amount.
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Old 05-10-2009, 07:14 PM
 
Location: South Walton Florida
187 posts, read 911,253 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big House View Post
They don't normally, but they can put a compressor on the line and see if there are any leaks. Since water does not compress, if they put a compressor on it they can regulate it and if it is going to leak it should show up within the first couple hours. You can run the compressor longer. But I would do that test prior to closing up the drywall. It is really a simple easy test to have the plumber do. Up here in MD it is fairly common.

The reason they use the PEX system is because you can fish the tubing much like they would electrical wiring, and home run much of the piping, reducing the amount of drywall penetrations, and not having to make all the connections to fittings it saves a lot of labor.

Judith, if someone is charging that kind of money, it is a rip-off, you can plumb a house new, provide all the plumbing fixtures and the hot water heater, and not pay anywhere near that amount.
We put all houses "on test" for at least 24 hours before drywall too. I never thought about the test picking up a bad crimp. I figured it was a long term issue vs. immediate term.

I know it's a tangent topic but, do plumbers up in Maryland fill the drain, waste and vent with water? In Fl. we have to fill all tubs to the overflow and the DWV to the highest fixture. In NJ we didn't have to test DWV.
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Old 05-10-2009, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Punta Gorda and Maryland
6,103 posts, read 14,113,193 times
Reputation: 1241
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAbsolute View Post
We put all houses "on test" for at least 24 hours before drywall too. I never thought about the test picking up a bad crimp. I figured it was a long term issue vs. immediate term.

I know it's a tangent topic but, do plumbers up in Maryland fill the drain, waste and vent with water? In Fl. we have to fill all tubs to the overflow and the DWV to the highest fixture. In NJ we didn't have to test DWV.
Yes they do, and the pressure test it. In Virginia in some counties, the plumbing inspector will not inspect unless he sees water spilling out of the vent above the roof. Some wont inspect the house if that is happening, and if he will get his shoes muddy in order to walk in. The inspectors are getting ridiculous in some places.
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Old 05-10-2009, 08:58 PM
 
Location: South Walton Florida
187 posts, read 911,253 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big House View Post
Yes they do, and the pressure test it. In Virginia in some counties, the plumbing inspector will not inspect unless he sees water spilling out of the vent above the roof. Some wont inspect the house if that is happening, and if he will get his shoes muddy in order to walk in. The inspectors are getting ridiculous in some places.
It is a catch 22, no? You can imagine I wish they would not even inspect. It only holds things up, but that is part of it all.

We do build 4 story homes and their Drain/Waste/Vent is not designed to hold that kind of test pressure. We still put them on test because the inspectors want to see it but it's just not healthy to put those lowest fixtures under that weight for 24 hours.
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