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Re: percentage of houses....
I meant is Chinese Drywall installed in maybe 1% of the houses in the low end of the market (sub $50,000) or could it be a lot higher in certain areas? All these houses that I'm focusing on were probably built way before 2002 but that doesn't preclude any number of renovations that could have been performed between 2002-2006.
As for liability I live alone. I'm not going to sue myself!
I hate aircon and wouldn't have it - ever. The whole reason I want to move to Florida from frigid Canada is to have fresh air - all the time - every season. When you don't need insulation you just avoid a raft of issues - many being health. People just don't realize how many indoor contaminents are totally eliminated when you have the windows open. Nothing has a chance to accumulate. Poof - its gone with the breeze. I work in an office where the temp is often in the 40's F. So obviously no heat is necessary either. Plus in this area of Florida temps that low are thankfully pretty infrequent.
As for the remodelling cost - I have pretty low standards. All I care about is function since there is no wife acceptance factor involved. I would probably not do much until resale (whenever that might be) and leave some cosmetic options up to the buyer. Sadly, most buyers are impulsive, illogical and unpragmatic and buy 90% on gut feeling and emotion. No wonder the western economy is in such a slump. Can you imagine running a business like they run the country? Last time I checked Economics 101 you're supposed to make more than you spend unless you have savings to fall back on. And sadly, since they don't educate kids on this concept another generation will live just as wastefully as we have.
As for people spending their life savings.....That's someone who can't manage their money. Nobody with any common sense puts most of their money into their house. You put most of your money into things that make money. $'s are seeds. They either grow or they don't. Depends on where you plant. This is another example of people buying too much too soon.
Consider this concept: Teenager is sick of the house rules, can't wait to move out. Instead of moving into an apartment and having 1/3 of their income sucked into the landlord's pocket, they buy a little trailer, live on their parent's property for free. Anybody with so much as a paper route can buy a trailer for cash or pay it off in a few months. Then you're rent free. Now you're in a position to save for your house. Which you don't buy until you have the cash. Can you imagine how these kids would look financially at 35? They would all be millionaires. Their eyes would water and squint with revulsion and derision upon the suggestion of a loan of any sort. And when they opened a business with their own money imagine how carefully they would shop for supplies, fixtures, shopping for the best deal possible because its not the bank's money that was thrown into their laps - its theirs and they've worked long and hard for that money. Few of those businesses would go under! And imagine the pride they would feel knowing it was them that did it - their seed (their ideas and dollars) grew that business from start to success. That's how our forefathers felt with their businesses. We've lost that satisfaction with work. Banks disassociate us with money. Maybe that dissatisfaction is why so many of us spend unendingly on stuff we really don't value or need.
Re: percentage of houses....
I meant is Chinese Drywall installed in maybe 1% of the houses in the low end of the market (sub $50,000) or could it be a lot higher in certain areas? All these houses that I'm focusing on were probably built way before 2002 but that doesn't preclude any number of renovations that could have been performed between 2002-2006.
As for liability I live alone. I'm not going to sue myself!
I hate aircon and wouldn't have it - ever. The whole reason I want to move to Florida from frigid Canada is to have fresh air - all the time - every season. When you don't need insulation you just avoid a raft of issues - many being health. People just don't realize how many indoor contaminents are totally eliminated when you have the windows open. Nothing has a chance to accumulate. Poof - its gone with the breeze. I work in an office where the temp is often in the 40's F. So obviously no heat is necessary either. Plus in this area of Florida temps that low are thankfully pretty infrequent.
As for the remodelling cost - I have pretty low standards. All I care about is function since there is no wife acceptance factor involved. I would probably not do much until resale (whenever that might be) and leave some cosmetic options up to the buyer. Sadly, most buyers are impulsive, illogical and unpragmatic and buy 90% on gut feeling and emotion. No wonder the western economy is in such a slump. Can you imagine running a business like they run the country? Last time I checked Economics 101 you're supposed to make more than you spend unless you have savings to fall back on. And sadly, since they don't educate kids on this concept another generation will live just as wastefully as we have.
As for people spending their life savings.....That's someone who can't manage their money. Nobody with any common sense puts most of their money into their house. You put most of your money into things that make money. $'s are seeds. They either grow or they don't. Depends on where you plant. This is another example of people buying too much too soon.
Consider this concept: Teenager is sick of the house rules, can't wait to move out. Instead of moving into an apartment and having 1/3 of their income sucked into the landlord's pocket, they buy a little trailer, live on their parent's property for free. Anybody with so much as a paper route can buy a trailer for cash or pay it off in a few months. Then you're rent free. Now you're in a position to save for your house. Which you don't buy until you have the cash. Can you imagine how these kids would look financially at 35? They would all be millionaires. Their eyes would water and squint with revulsion and derision upon the suggestion of a loan of any sort. And when they opened a business with their own money imagine how carefully they would shop for supplies, fixtures, shopping for the best deal possible because its not the bank's money that was thrown into their laps - its theirs and they've worked long and hard for that money. Few of those businesses would go under! And imagine the pride they would feel knowing it was them that did it - their seed (their ideas and dollars) grew that business from start to success. That's how our forefathers felt with their businesses. We've lost that satisfaction with work. Banks disassociate us with money. Maybe that dissatisfaction is why so many of us spend unendingly on stuff we really don't value or need.
RichardZ, This post sound like a present day Charles Dickens story with the main character "Scrooge" being portrayed by you. There are many parallels here.
I do agree with you however that a lot of people do not know how to handle money properly. But thanks to the banks and being able to borrow money I have been very successful in my own real-estate ventures.
Life does not revolve around money, and happiness can not be bought with it. I know to many people, family and friends that are obsessed with their bank rolls. Yes its nice to have a little nest egg, but enjoy life a little before its to late. Setting in an office in 40 degree cold or cooking in 100 degree heat is not living. My question to you is why work at all ? You can have that type of comfort by being homeless.
As far a the CDW problem I personally would run from a property that had it. We just don't know what the long term effects are going to be even after the property has be remedied.
A contruction consultant/forensic expert out of Sarasota that has been investigating this for years now estimates that 50% of homes built in 2005-2006 in the area have the bad drywall. He has discovered it in a 2001 home going up to it being found in 2008 construction.
The problem did not break in the news publically until late Dec of 2008. It may even have snuck into early 2009 construction. ( I am aware of a fast food chain that remodeled 6 area stores in early 2009 that used it.)
Though regular opening and closing of doors can keep the concentration of the gasses down, it has been found that leaving windows open all of the time makes the problem worse. Heat and humdity bring it out something FIERCE as can the cold if it's also DAMP. The best bet for health comfort for those suffering it out while figuring out what they are going to do, is to keep the interior as cool and DRY as possible. I realize that is hard to do when AC coils keep corroding and leaking out all of the coolant every several months.
Keep interior closet doors open so as you don't get hit with a wall of concentrated gases built up in them when you go to open them.
Air quality testing has even been done in bathrooms of CDW homes before and after a hot steamy shower was run and the levels of toxic gases went up significantly in the bathroom just after a shower.
Living with windows open year round is just not practical in Florida for many reasons. Some have bad allergies and need to be in AC for relief, and an interior kept at 85 with 60% plus humidity is an invite for mold growth.
No one paying money to rent our own a home in the U.S.A. should be forced to suffer from sulfuric acid burning out their eyes nose, lungs and skin while coroding away at their metals. No one should have to suffer the neurotoxic effects and pulmonary/central nervous system irritation and damage caused hydrogen sulfide out gassing from their home. Hydrogen sulfide has a near identical chemical makeup to cyanide aka mustard gas. Some babies are sleeping in these toxic gas chambers ever day and night.
Taking this problem lightly is ignorant. If as Americans we come to accept this toxic crap and poisoning from the market place at every turn, we will inherate a toxic waste land, inhabited by very chronically il people.
As tax payers, we all contribute good money to fund regulatory agencies that serve us to keep consumers products safe. We are getting jipped and ripped off at every turn as these angencies look the other way in favor of getting gifts from big corpa lobbies out to shlup us their poisons, and I am including the FDA.
Assumptions made about "remediated" homes being fixed of the problem are just that. Complaints keep rolling in that the problem remains. I just got off the phone with someone, who knows of a family in the Cape Coral area, that after two months of being back in their "remediated" home ( by a builder different then the one in the video), the exposure symptoms have started returning.
The two month timing makes sense if the cabinets and window treatments were also newly replaced. Seems it would take about that time for contamination in the block and studs to start coming back through the new drywall, ( other reports of that were being discussed at conferences on this months ago) and contamination in the concrete slab to start coming up through the padding and carpet.
Some of the builders are reinstalling the original contaminated cabinets and window treatments. This is foolishness as the cabinets are in the rooms that create heat and steam, like bathrooms, kitchens and laundry rooms. window treatments get hit by the sun, where the heat causes chemical reactions causing off gassing.
People need to understand that we are dealing with toxic gases that have had years to absorb themselves deeply into pourous materials. Independent testing has been done on concrete chips, plywood, and wood studs and it has been cross contaminated. Brand new shiny copper wires are turning black again within weeks in these "remediated" homes.
They need to be BULLDOZED and hauled off to a toxic waste dump.
If anyone chooses to beleive otherwise, they are taking guess and chances. There is ZERO long term research done on this 20 plus chemical cocktail off gassing in the domestic environment. There is ZERO long term research done on the effectiveness of various remediation protocals being attempted.
There has never been anything like this to reference.
Though there is some research done on exposure to an individual gas, in the work place, for minutes to an hour of exposure on healthy grown men, no where has research been done on a mix of dozens of toxic gases and heavy metal vapors low level off gassing chronically in a domestic environment where babies children, the elderly, asthmatics and chemical sensitives live 24/7 year after year.
One thing is for sure is that we have seen the corrosive effects on metals and the health symptom complaints are pretty consistant-similar symptoms related to those the detected gases are know to cause, similar symptoms from home to home, and similar stories of how the problems started after they moved in, go away when the residents leave and return when they go back in.
We also know that as people are moving back in to remediated homes, reports are coming in of the problems persisting.
Why anyone is willing to look past that for a "bargain" on a home, in a market full of non toxic bargains is beyond me.
I do know that the Feds and CPSC are not in approval of the use of the chlorine dioxide idea. They are expected to be releasing more info on their studies at the end of this month. I do know that the CPSC investigators commented that enough evidence of toxicity in the homes had been found, to support further testing and investigations into the links to the health complaints. I do know that during their last Senate hearing, Federal investigators were experiencing health problems just from the few hours they were in some of these homes and in Virginia, they stopped going in to them to investigate and are just doing phone questionaires now.
If the Federal investigators are admitting to getting sick when they go into these homes, that says something.
I hate aircon and wouldn't have it - ever. The whole reason I want to move to Florida from frigid Canada is to have fresh air - all the time - every season. When you don't need insulation you just avoid a raft of issues - many being health.
I think you should do a little research, including a trip here during the summer (April - November ) before making such a large decision based on having un-air conditioned air all year long.
The heat index (feels like temp) averages 115+ during the summer months, and routinely exceeds 120. On 6/18/09 The temp got to 99 degrees with 89 percent humidity, that's a heat index of 155 (or 161, or 167 depending upon the formula used).
I think that trying to live here without AC would probably not have the desired results, and in fact could be dangerous to your health. Without taking the very real risk of heat stroke into consideration, having a constant high moisture content in the house would probably grow quite a bit of mold on your furniture, curtains, etc pretty quickly.
Think of how much more responsible and diligent the buying public would be if there was no such profession as lawyer...!
Great thought! What a concept once again!
A. if there was no lawyer would the buying public really utilize the buyer beware concept? And, be responsible for thier stupid blunders.
B. would contractors really take advantage and step out of bounds - Of course - greed and averice is well and healthy in America.
C. what would all the lawyers do? become productive citizens or find another opportunity to prey on the victims and insurance companies? become firemen - heck no, become ambulance drivers - they follow not lead them. What would they do? (Now I'll be locked in a circular thought pattern all night! - why did you bring that up! darn it!)
Re: percentage of houses....
I meant is Chinese Drywall installed in maybe 1% of the houses in the low end of the market (sub $50,000) or could it be a lot higher in certain areas? All these houses that I'm focusing on were probably built way before 2002 but that doesn't preclude any number of renovations that could have been performed between 2002-2006.
As for liability I live alone. I'm not going to sue myself!
I hate aircon and wouldn't have it - ever. The whole reason I want to move to Florida from frigid Canada is to have fresh air - all the time - every season. When you don't need insulation you just avoid a raft of issues - many being health. People just don't realize how many indoor contaminents are totally eliminated when you have the windows open. Nothing has a chance to accumulate. Poof - its gone with the breeze. I work in an office where the temp is often in the 40's F. So obviously no heat is necessary either. Plus in this area of Florida temps that low are thankfully pretty infrequent.
As for the remodelling cost - I have pretty low standards. All I care about is function since there is no wife acceptance factor involved. I would probably not do much until resale (whenever that might be) and leave some cosmetic options up to the buyer. Sadly, most buyers are impulsive, illogical and unpragmatic and buy 90% on gut feeling and emotion. No wonder the western economy is in such a slump. Can you imagine running a business like they run the country? Last time I checked Economics 101 you're supposed to make more than you spend unless you have savings to fall back on. And sadly, since they don't educate kids on this concept another generation will live just as wastefully as we have.
As for people spending their life savings.....That's someone who can't manage their money. Nobody with any common sense puts most of their money into their house. You put most of your money into things that make money. $'s are seeds. They either grow or they don't. Depends on where you plant. This is another example of people buying too much too soon.
Consider this concept: Teenager is sick of the house rules, can't wait to move out. Instead of moving into an apartment and having 1/3 of their income sucked into the landlord's pocket, they buy a little trailer, live on their parent's property for free. Anybody with so much as a paper route can buy a trailer for cash or pay it off in a few months. Then you're rent free. Now you're in a position to save for your house. Which you don't buy until you have the cash. Can you imagine how these kids would look financially at 35? They would all be millionaires. Their eyes would water and squint with revulsion and derision upon the suggestion of a loan of any sort. And when they opened a business with their own money imagine how carefully they would shop for supplies, fixtures, shopping for the best deal possible because its not the bank's money that was thrown into their laps - its theirs and they've worked long and hard for that money. Few of those businesses would go under! And imagine the pride they would feel knowing it was them that did it - their seed (their ideas and dollars) grew that business from start to success. That's how our forefathers felt with their businesses. We've lost that satisfaction with work. Banks disassociate us with money. Maybe that dissatisfaction is why so many of us spend unendingly on stuff we really don't value or need.
Great Post! But, man! You have no chance of ever getting married! LOL
Hurry down. I'll buy you a beer, cuz I don't think you can get your hand outta your pocket fast enough to pick up the check! You are my idol! I thought I was frugal!
I think you should do a little research, including a trip here during the summer (April - November ) before making such a large decision based on having un-air conditioned air all year long.
The heat index (feels like temp) averages 115+ during the summer months, and routinely exceeds 120. On 6/18/09 The temp got to 99 degrees with 89 percent humidity, that's a heat index of 155 (or 161, or 167 depending upon the formula used).
I think that trying to live here without AC would probably not have the desired results, and in fact could be dangerous to your health. Without taking the very real risk of heat stroke into consideration, having a constant high moisture content in the house would probably grow quite a bit of mold on your furniture, curtains, etc pretty quickly.
I love the heat, maybe he is thinking North Florida (someplace?) I think he would reevaluate whether air condtioning is a worthwhile expense, unless he enjoys sleeping in a pool of water. On the flip side, running the AC sometimes is still far less than the heating costs.
CDW is an unprecedented disaster for the housing market. The economic effects will be long lasting and very painful. Wait for the law suits to start cranking up.
CDW is an unprecedented disaster for the housing market. The economic effects will be long lasting and very painful. Wait for the law suits to start cranking up.
That is not true. The asbestos issue was far worse, as has been the legislation damning lead based paint. Dryvit, was a total disaster when it's defects became known. There are others, but the magnitude of them was far worse than CDW. You're only talking 30,000 homes in Florida, and it was used in a handful of other states. It is no where near as widespread as these other defective and dangerous products.
The housing boom, and the foreclosures and take-backs on many of these homes has occurred already. The Banks hold an undefinitized amount of them too. So far the recognition and remediation has been rapid in that regard.
I don't think the remediation steps have been done as well as they should be, but a lot of work has been done on that regard! So, by comparision the CDW issue is not near as big. It is an ugly issue though, and if you have had a health effect type issue from it - I would expect that nothing anyone can say will change your perspective!
> This post sound like a present day Charles Dickens story with the main character "Scrooge" being portrayed by you. There are many parallels here.
Lol!....That was a risk I took....
> I do agree with you however that a lot of people do not know how to handle money properly. But thanks to the banks and being able to borrow money I have been very successful in my own real-estate ventures.
I see people more controlled by money because they don't control it properly I guess. We as a society seem to be caught up in a never ending upgrade of everything in our lives. Some upgrades make us more productive which is great. Some save us time. But most....its just for the approval of a spouse, neighbor or a fellow employee. Its rarely enjoyed for more than a very brief amount of time.
I love it when people say "I only buy the best". Well buddy, the best today is going to be trash in 10 years. Look at the TV's 10 years ago compared to today. The computers, phones, virtually most anything in electronics was a shadow of itself today. So its just a never ending pusuit of the fruitless. We get so much more out of non-material things - like our health and relationships.
> Life does not revolve around money, and happiness can not be bought with it. I know to many people, family and friends that are obsessed with their bank rolls. Yes its nice to have a little nest egg, but enjoy life a little before its to late.
Yes I agree 100%. But enjoyment of life is quite impossible if you're overweight, not fit, have numerous aches and pains, etc. I just would encourage people to focus on their health way before buying their next house upgrade. So many people work all their lives, then keel over from a heart attack a year after retirement. Seems like such a waste.
>Sitting in an office in 40 degree cold
Not cold at all if you are good at solving insulation problems. I'm toasty most all the time. (I found a way of keeping my fingers warm when typing. Nothing on the market for that!) Like any problem it requires persistence and patience.
> or cooking in 100 degree heat is not living.
With the windows open the temperature inside is going to be very close to the temperature outside. When you get too hot you just dip your stretchy, skin tight tshirt in water. Cools you for about 2 hours. If its a dark color nobody even knows its damp. When you go outside, wear a loose white shirt on top to minimize drying from the sun.
> My question to you is why work at all ? You can have that type of comfort by being homeless.
I'm not that much of a loon. LOL!
> As far a the CDW problem I personally would run from a property that had it. We just don't know what the long term effects are going to be even after the property has be remedied.
It does look that way. I'm very curious to try to approximate just what percentage of properties on the market are effected by it. You can bet most everybody that knows they have it is going to attempt to sell before laws are put into place to protect the purchaser.
I was told today by a Florida realtor that the chances of a renovation having the CDW is small as most of it was bought for new home construction. (I'm looking at a simple, older house.) I wonder if you people here in the know would agree with that statement? She said they didn't exactly sell it in Home Depot et al for the do it yourselfer.
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) before making such a large decision based on having un-air conditioned air all year long.
You are my idol! I thought I was frugal!
