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Old 01-07-2010, 06:45 AM
 
455 posts, read 919,074 times
Reputation: 411

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbuild View Post
I think it is freedom of religion, Not atheism. The fore- fathers of this Country who you are quoting fought, died and signed a little piece of paper and sent it back to England. For what? There religous beliefs (Christian) and seperation from the King.

Now I will admit, I once was a non-believer and by the grace of God, I knocked and Jesus answered. If you do not believe in Christ, why is there so much anger and jabs at people with Jesus bumperstickers on there tailgates.

I find it hard to believe walking through life believing in Agnostic, Darwinism, Atheist beliefs. When your life ends what do you have to look for? And if you believe in Mohhamed, Budda and etc, I will stay with Jesus because he is the only the way who came back (ressurection)

Also for the commit on Jerry Fallwell, If you would read further and not bash, you would have found that Liberty Counsel is out of Orlando (Matt Staver) a (Christian) Attorney who fights against the ACLU on the behalf of anyone and Christians.

HAVE YOU READ THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE????? Obviously not. There is NO mention of "religion" whatsoever. Actually, the American Revolution was about taxation without representation and the right to self-governance.

The First Amendment to the Constitution states: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Liberty Counsel is an arm of Liberty University...founded by Jerry Fallwell. "Partnering with Liberty University, Liberty Counsel is a non-profit organization offering free legal assistance in the areas of “religious liberty, the sanctity of human life and the traditional family.”
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2007/may/21/image/chi-liberty_finalmay21

And I suppose you will agree with the quote I posed earlier? “I regard Christianity as the foundation of our national morality and the family as the basis of our national life”
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:28 AM
 
Location: North Port, FL
49 posts, read 90,231 times
Reputation: 45
Religion can best be explained by one of my favorite philosophers, George Carlin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNy6ziOyxoA
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:35 AM
 
1,235 posts, read 3,459,382 times
Reputation: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbuild View Post
I think it is freedom of religion, Not atheism. The fore- fathers of this Country who you are quoting fought, died and signed a little piece of paper and sent it back to England. For what? There religous beliefs (Christian) and seperation from the King.

Now I will admit, I once was a non-believer and by the grace of God, I knocked and Jesus answered. If you do not believe in Christ, why is there so much anger and jabs at people with Jesus bumperstickers on there tailgates.

I find it hard to believe walking through life believing in Agnostic, Darwinism, Atheist beliefs. When your life ends what do you have to look for? And if you believe in Mohhamed, Budda and etc, I will stay with Jesus because he is the only the way who came back (ressurection)

Also for the commit on Jerry Fallwell, If you would read further and not bash, you would have found that Liberty Counsel is out of Orlando (Matt Staver) a (Christian) Attorney who fights against the ACLU on the behalf of anyone and Christians.

1. Religious freedom is a right, and includes the right to practice any religion of one’s choice, or no religion at all, and to do this without government control.

2. Please re-educate yourself on American history. Our country was NOT founded on christian beliefs but christians do so love to throw that around as fact. Would you like me to post some quotes from our founding fathers? Maybe investigate other than what you are being spoon fed in church. "Under god" wasn't even in the pledge of allegiance until the 1950's and it wasn't on our money (starting with coins) until the 1800's.

3. I live my life for the here & now. When we die, we are dead- game over. I'm not afraid of my mortality. We are like every other species on the planet. We are born, we live & we die. It's the cycle of life. I don't need to "look forward" to anything after death. My life is awesome & I'm enjoying every minute of it in the here & now. Believe want you want if it helps you get through your life but you can't prove you are right no more than any other follower of any other faith. There are over 3,000 gods that have been worshipped on this planet.

I can accept death without a little prize at the end.

Last edited by PixiStix; 01-07-2010 at 09:54 AM..
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Old 01-07-2010, 05:08 PM
 
Location: WI
1,133 posts, read 2,777,633 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy-105 View Post
Don't you think it would be to our advantage to try not to do anything that makes it easier for Islamic extremist to recruit more followers?

Don't you realize that any policy that can be construed as mistreatment of Muslims will be turned into propaganda and used in recruitment?

Don't you understand that the advantages of profiling will be short lived, as Al-Qaeda will quickly adapt, and the damages by the policy will be long term, maybe un-retractable. (Kind of a win the battle but lost the war kind of thing.)

Aren't you aware that Al-Qaeda reportedly has a history of recruiting blue eyed blonds in Europe?

Would this type of profiling have stopped Richard Reid, a biracial British/Jamaican?

Have you already forgotten about the Fort Hood shooter? Why did an American start shooting his fellow solders on American soil? We need to understand why an American of Muslim faith felt the way he did.

Do you really think that we can secure our borders? We can't keep out illegal immigrants how are we going to keep out someone intent on martyrdom?

IMO, profiling young, middle eastern males is a simplistic solution that will only alienate citizens of the entire region and accelerate the Jihad. I don't think that the people who are promoting racial profiling are looking at the big picture. The enemy certainly is.
Oh please. "Let's not do anything to upset Al-Quaeda!!"??? Are you kidding me???? Yeah, Obama apologizing all over the place is working REAL well.
As for recruiting blue eyed blondes, go google and find pictures of all the 911 terrorists, AND the ones that blew the hole in the USS Cole, the subway bombers in Spain, the 1992 World Trade Bombers, those that bombed the American embassy in Somalia, the nightclub in Indonesia, the Fort Hood terrorist, AND Richard Reid, AND the Christmas Day idiot. Tell me whether they are 5 year old girls, grey haired grannies, or blue eyed blondes, or if they are actually young, male, and non-American. Which is what I said in the first place.
And do you seriously think that if we DID catch all these idiots, that would actually increase their ranks? I'm thinking that if none of them have any success that would put a damper on anyone else trying. Even if they did still try, and we catch them all because we hurt their feelings by stopping them, then where's the harm? STILL no one gets hurt!! Isn't that the idea?? To keep US safe? Or is it to not hurt someone's feelings by thinking they might be a terrorist? Mrs.Cool

Last edited by mrcoolmrcool28; 01-07-2010 at 05:26 PM..
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,850 posts, read 13,362,860 times
Reputation: 2253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska to Florida View Post
Religion can best be explained by one of my favorite philosophers, George Carlin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNy6ziOyxoA
George is the bomb!
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Florida
917 posts, read 2,455,970 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcoolmrcool28 View Post
Oh please. "Let's not do anything to upset Al-Quaeda!!"??? Are you kidding me???? Yeah, Obama apologizing all over the place is working REAL well.
As for recruiting blue eyed blondes, go google and find pictures of all the 911 terrorists, AND the ones that blew the hole in the USS Cole, the subway bombers in Spain, the 1992 World Trade Bombers, those that bombed the American embassy in Somalia, the nightclub in Indonesia, the Fort Hood terrorist, AND Richard Reid, AND the Christmas Day idiot. Tell me whether they are 5 year old girls, grey haired grannies, or blue eyed blondes, or if they are actually young, male, and non-American. Which is what I said in the first place.
And do you seriously think that if we DID catch all these idiots, that would actually increase their ranks? I'm thinking that if none of them have any success that would put a damper on anyone else trying. Even if they did still try, and we catch them all because we hurt their feelings by stopping them, then where's the harm? STILL no one gets hurt!! Isn't that the idea?? To keep US safe? Or is it to not hurt someone's feelings by thinking they might be a terrorist? Mrs.Cool
Ok, I can see this is pointless. It's the wrong place for it anyway.
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Florida
917 posts, read 2,455,970 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladywithafan View Post
George is the bomb!
Yep!
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:06 PM
 
Location: WI
1,133 posts, read 2,777,633 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy-105 View Post
Ok, I can see this is pointless. It's the wrong place for it anyway.
Always a good line whenever you lose the debate Mrs.Cool
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:08 PM
 
Location: North Port
325 posts, read 955,383 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by PixiStix View Post
1. Religious freedom is a right, and includes the right to practice any religion of one’s choice, or no religion at all, and to do this without government control.

2. Please re-educate yourself on American history. Our country was NOT founded on christian beliefs but christians do so love to throw that around as fact. Would you like me to post some quotes from our founding fathers? Maybe investigate other than what you are being spoon fed in church. "Under god" wasn't even in the pledge of allegiance until the 1950's and it wasn't on our money (starting with coins) until the 1800's.

3. I live my life for the here & now. When we die, we are dead- game over. I'm not afraid of my mortality. We are like every other species on the planet. We are born, we live & we die. It's the cycle of life. I don't need to "look forward" to anything after death. My life is awesome & I'm enjoying every minute of it in the here & now. Believe want you want if it helps you get through your life but you can't prove you are right no more than any other follower of any other faith. There are over 3,000 gods that have been worshipped on this planet.

I can accept death without a little prize at the end.
No, the pilgrims came here from England to hang out , freeze, die from starvation. I believe it was for freedom of religion, But if not right, I am sure you will tell me why I am wrong...
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:32 PM
 
455 posts, read 919,074 times
Reputation: 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbuild View Post
No, the pilgrims came here from England to hang out , freeze, die from starvation. I believe it was for freedom of religion, But if not right, I am sure you will tell me why I am wrong...
The The Leiden Separatists (Pilgrims) arrived in 1620 from Holland where they had found refuge from persecution. After a decade in Leiden, the low wages, the danger of renewed war with Spain, and concern for their children's future led them to seek another solution. The Leiden Separatist community decided to relocate to America.

Here is a quote from Governor William Bradford's journal. It's hard to read his archaic language but you can figure it out.

"all great & honourable actions are accompanied with great difficulties, and must be both enterprised and overcome with answerable courages. It was granted ye dangers were great, but not desperate; the difficulties were many, but not invincible. For though their were many of them likely, yet they were not cartaine; it might be sundrie of ye things feared might never befale; others by providente care & ye use of good means, might in a great measure be prevented; and all of them, through ye help of God, by fortitude and patience, might either be borne, or overcome. True it was, that such atempts were not to be made and undertaken without good ground & reason; not rashly or lightly as many have done for curiositie or hope of gaine, &c. But their condition was not ordinarie; their ends were good & honourable; their calling lawfull, & urgente; and therfore they might expecte ye blessing of god in their proceding. Yea, though they should loose their lives in this action, yet might they have comforte in the same, and their endeavors would be honourable. They lived hear but as men in exile, & in a poore condition; and as great miseries might possibly befale them in this place, for ye 12. years of truce [the truce between Holland and Spain] were now out, & ther was nothing but beating of drumes, and preparing for warr, the events wherof are allway uncertaine."

I'm not discounting their trials and the nobility of their enterprise (I'm proud to count Reverend John Robinson among my ancestors) but they had already found sanctuary and freedom of religion in Holland. I'm also not trying to give you a slanted, anti "Pilgrim" outlook. This information came from this web site: http://www.pilgrimhall.org/plgrmhll.htm which is the site for a museum of their possessions.

Last edited by MrsTommy; 01-07-2010 at 07:49 PM..
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