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Old 04-04-2010, 02:30 PM
 
33,605 posts, read 53,495,413 times
Reputation: 20218

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Florida's merit-pay plan for teachers prompts debate - Legislature - MiamiHerald.com (http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/04/03/1562425/floridas-merit-pay-plan-for-teachers.html - broken link)

Massive protest targets education bill in Florida Legislature - Education - MiamiHerald.com (http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/31/1555936/teachers-stage-massive-protest.html - broken link)

Bill would tie teacher pay to performance, student test scores - Sun Sentinel

and I thought the Texas legislature was pretty ignorant after some of the changes it has passed regarding educational programs, funding, and problem-solving. I just can't imagine how desperate the teachers and administrators in public schools in Florida must feel knowing a decision that will impact all of them so severely is in the totally-incompetent hands of the Fl legislature. (Heaven knows there is nothing in their brains...)

IF this bill passes, Florida legislature will set back the quality of education and systematically gut teaching as a profession....

The rules that this program would operate under would make it impossible for a certain section of teachers to EVER get a raise and would put certain types of classes into a "forbidden zone" that no one would want to be assigned to work.

A teacher who works with G/T students and has almost all of her students come in making the highest scores on F-CAT would be deemed a failure unless all of those students score another perfect mark...
In the past working in G/T classes was considered a desireable class assignment whereas in the future these will be the worst because there won't be any room for improvement. Special needs students who basically maxed out the ability to absorb new information would be another group.

Teachers would not get any raise from completing a master's. It is all well and good to say that teachers should want to improve their skills and professional knowledge but there is no incentive to do that with this new legislation. And remember that teachers pay for those additional degrees out of their own pocket--no assistance from the ISDs or the state for tuition==unlike many businesses who offer assistance for those who try to enhance job skills.

Apparently the Florida legislature is determined to make as many bad decisions as it can in an effort to throw all the responsibility for improving Florida education/educational scores on the backs of teachers without any realistic, informed, rational design...
The backlash from this won't happen overnight--but it will happen. Maybe the huge lobby for privatizing education considers this a blow in their direction...anyone who thinks that privatizing public education is better that a quality publicly funded, publicly run system has failed to learn from history of similar changes in other fields or has something to gain from the change--and probably both...

You don't get any sympathy from me---I think this is the biggest mistake any state can make regarding "reforming" education...
At one time the Chinese considered binding the feet of female children to be the creation of great beauty--we know how that turned out.
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Old 04-04-2010, 04:20 PM
 
475 posts, read 840,555 times
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After witnessing the stranglehold the VERY POWERFUL unions have had on teachers, government & the auto industry in Michigan I look forward to living in a state where the kids will have a better chance at a quality education and teachers will not be rewarded for simply being around for many years. BYO it is very likely that the additional certifications and masters degrees are also paid for by tax payers through the tuition reimbursement programs not by the teachers.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:54 AM
 
33,605 posts, read 53,495,413 times
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My daughter teaches in Sarasota county schools--she is not getting reimbursed for any of her master's program...

prove your points--show me where ANY FL ISD offers reembursement for teachers working toward master's degrees in education or their administrator's certification...

there are only a few districts in TX that contribute to their teachers' efforts in that regard now where as 20 yrs also almost all of them did...

don't assume because you hate unions that you have made your case against this very flawed bill ...
that is like saying because I am allergic to peanuts, no peanuts should be sold...
just irrational...which is exactly what that FL bill is...
an irrational attempt to address issues of students failing to meet certain state/federal standards...

what happens if this bill passess, the salary measures are enforced, AND students' results DON'T IMPROVE???
DUH!!!
what does the legislature do then--cut off teachers' heads a la the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland-land???
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Old 04-05-2010, 10:37 AM
 
268 posts, read 1,023,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
My daughter teaches in Sarasota county schools--she is not getting reimbursed for any of her master's program...
Pardon my ignorance, but will your daughter get a raise in salary when she completes her degree? The reason I ask is that my wife did when she completed hers, altho that was not in FL.

And btw, my daughter is also in grad school, 3 years plus a year of unpaid internship. I doubt she will ever make as much money as a school teacher and certainly not while working 3/4 of the year with one of the best retirement plans in the country that may include free healthcare for life (again here, not FL).

She'll be working primarily with poor and disadvantaged people, so it's also a noble cause.

Should taxpayers pick up her tab, too?

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Old 04-05-2010, 06:00 PM
 
475 posts, read 840,555 times
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Loves2read, I don't hate unions (although I believe most have abused their power over the decades and have led to their own demise) I belong to one in Mi. My union has tuition reimbursement.
Also,your point that ends with the word DUH!!! (how old are you?) shows you won't even entertain a new idea to solve an old problem, that's unfortunate.
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Old 04-06-2010, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Ohio/Sarasota
913 posts, read 2,224,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FauxPas View Post

And btw, my daughter is also in grad school, 3 years plus a year of unpaid internship. I doubt she will ever make as much money as a school teacher and certainly not while working 3/4 of the year with one of the best retirement plans in the country that may include free healthcare for life (again here, not FL).


I don't know what state your in, but most (if not all) teacher retirement systems are self-supporting. In fact some of these retirement systems are so "over funded" that some states are attempting to take over these systems. It seems to be a cash cow they can not resist. Also, my guess if your states system has free health care for retired teachers, it is not required to be offered by the retirement system and can be revoked at any time. Or it may be in conjunction with an already generous state health care system. I always like the "working 3/4 of the time" comments. I am a teacher and I have a master's degree. If I was an engineer (as was my original major), I would be making twice my salary.

Kudos for your daughter for deciding on social work for her life's work. She knows her salary will be lower than most others with the same degree (as I did when I chose teaching). With some people, life is not about making money. It sounds like you do not entirely agree with your daughter's path.
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Old 04-06-2010, 12:27 PM
 
268 posts, read 1,023,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davery5872 View Post
It sounds like you do not entirely agree with your daughter's path.
I've supported her completely and always will. What she's after is more important to her than money. But, she won't complain.
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:49 PM
 
Location: North Port, FL
49 posts, read 90,228 times
Reputation: 45
I taught high school in Arizona for many years. Even with a union, the district never compensated their employees for the cost of REQUIRED graduate classes. I remember having to go to school for at least 2 months of my summer vacations in order to keep my certificate up and not lose my job. When the state of Arizona moved to get teacher pay predicated on improved scores on standardized tests, I finished the school year and then quit. I taught remedial science to students who hated school, but had to pass 2 semesters of science in order to graduate. My students could care less about doing well on a test that didn't matter to their grade. I got into teaching with lofty intensions and a positive attitude. I got out when I realized how little our society cares about teaching as a profession.
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Ohio/Sarasota
913 posts, read 2,224,644 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by FauxPas View Post
I've supported her completely and always will. What she's after is more important to her than money. But, she won't complain.

She doesn't need to.
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Palm Island and North Port
7,511 posts, read 21,555,609 times
Reputation: 2854
A roadblock for proposal on teacher pay | HeraldTribune.com

Gov. Charlie Crist said Wednesday that he is having second thoughts about whether he will sign one of its major pieces -- a bill that would make it easier to fire teachers and to base their pay on student performance.
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