Parents in Savannah what is your take on the punitive approach to discipline in the Chatham County Schools? (Atlanta: 2015, homes)

[movingfromwestcoast]

Saw this trailer last night for an independent film related to a similar subject matter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d_jQycdQGo

[movingfromwestcoast]

Originally Posted by bellhead

Sad to see this...

People hate the charter schools which are destroying the education system and doing more harm than good, but this is why charter schools were started in order to shake things up.

It is set up to fix the system but no one goes back to the district schools and makes adjustments. We all just get out and don't look back.

[pink caddy]

Originally Posted by movingfromwestcoast

Pink Caddy. It is not a one sided debate from the superintendents point of view and he has the power to make change in the district happen. The superintendent and teachers in Savannah GA feel it is normal and or effective to yell at children in order to control them. I meet with my board member of the district and voiced my concerns; meet with the principal of the school; met with the superintendent; visited numerous schools in the district; sat in on my children's classes; spoke with parents of other children; spoke with coworkers; spoke with parents at public places; and more.

There is not a forum for discussion on the gov website, county website, government officials websites, school district website, school facebook groups, school websites. All websites are locked and controlled. This is the only "city" forum I could find. Where should I take my concerns?

I will have to be a little more careful with my posts and spell them out for you so that you understand my style of humor, snarkyness, sarcasm and what-ever.

By "one sided" I meant there is only your voice on this subject posted here. It's a very strong condemnation against the boss of schools. He doesn't get an opportunity to speak and present. That's one sided. You have already stated that he disagrees with you (he by the way is an educator) yet you bring this to a public forum seeking ...............what? That's one sided.

"All forums are locked". You are wasting our time with that gibberich.

I see that you are really frustrated and you are trying to be a good parent but I really think( IMHO) you are in the wrong forum. Not presenting anything other than your opinion as to how to educate a child. What do you except us to do? Go on-line and become an expert on child rearing?
Nope.

Why not, first, study the subject of children's education. On-line, library, at his school with discussions (giving them an op to talk) and determine if your way is the only way or if there is room for the Super's viewpoint.

[movingfromwestcoast]

Originally Posted by pink caddy

I will have to be a little more careful with my posts and spell them out for you so that you understand my style of humor, snarkyness, sarcasm and what-ever.

By "one sided" I meant there is only your voice on this subject posted here. It's a very strong condemnation against the boss of schools. He doesn't get an opportunity to speak and present. That's one sided. You have already stated that he disagrees with you (he by the way is an educator) yet you bring this to a public forum seeking ...............what? That's one sided.

"All forums are locked". You are wasting our time with that gibberich.

I see that you are really frustrated and you are trying to be a good parent but I really think( IMHO) you are in the wrong forum. Not presenting anything other than your opinion as to how to educate a child. What do you except us to do? Go on-line and become an expert on child rearing?
Nope.

Why not, first, study the subject of children's education. On-line, library, at his school with discussions (giving them an op to talk) and determine if your way is the only way or if there is room for the Super's viewpoint.

Here are my questions I asked the board and superintendent:

Can you provide research data/articles which show the benefits of yelling at children as a means to redirect them and create order during transitional times or during learning time? Can you show data which support control tactics as the best means to accomplish learning goals? Our understanding is the current data actually promotes a nurturing, loving and inquisitive environment to optimize learning. We are not seeing this in the schools at this time.

Please show research data/articles which support the music playing and strict no talking mandates during the lunch time as good tactics to children eating in a timely manner. What we have witnessed is a punitive approach of not allowing kids to talk quietly. We do not understand what harm will come with kids speaking softly during lunch and should they not finish their meal they could be placed at a ‘late’ table and have to finish lunch at that time, which also happens to be recess time for all students, since recess proceeds lunch. Very few children would want to miss recess. Lunch and recess times are vital periods where children learn peer-peer social skills and this is such an important acquisition skill which seems to be compromised with the current mandates in place.

Please show any data which supports recess denial as an effective punishment. Also please help us understand how psychologically healthy it is to punish the entire class with loss of recess for a few children’s poor behaviors. Additionally please explain how teachers can either threaten or remove recess time for children for days to weeks at a time and/or have the kids walk the playground repeatedly in an organized line during their recess time as a punishment. In our opinion and per the established research and APA Guidelines: ‘Children need recess. It is psychologically important.’

It is one sided because no one is answering.

[pink caddy]

Originally Posted by movingfromwestcoast

Here are my questions I asked the board and superintendent:

Can you provide research data/articles which show the benefits of yelling at children as a means to redirect them and create order during transitional times or during learning time? Can you show data which support control tactics as the best means to accomplish learning goals? Our understanding is the current data actually promotes a nurturing, loving and inquisitive environment to optimize learning. We are not seeing this in the schools at this time.

Please show research data/articles which support the music playing and strict no talking mandates during the lunch time as good tactics to children eating in a timely manner. What we have witnessed is a punitive approach of not allowing kids to talk quietly. We do not understand what harm will come with kids speaking softly during lunch and should they not finish their meal they could be placed at a ‘late’ table and have to finish lunch at that time, which also happens to be recess time for all students, since recess proceeds lunch. Very few children would want to miss recess. Lunch and recess times are vital periods where children learn peer-peer social skills and this is such an important acquisition skill which seems to be compromised with the current mandates in place.

Please show any data which supports recess denial as an effective punishment. Also please help us understand how psychologically healthy it is to punish the entire class with loss of recess for a few children’s poor behaviors. Additionally please explain how teachers can either threaten or remove recess time for children for days to weeks at a time and/or have the kids walk the playground repeatedly in an organized line during their recess time as a punishment. In our opinion and per the established research and APA Guidelines: ‘Children need recess. It is psychologically important.’

It is one sided because no one is answering.

I am not going to belabor this any longer as I am not an expert on the subject matter. But, I know one thing, everyone of your questions/points/agendas can be answered pro and con on line. If you are satisfied with your opinions as to how to educate a child you should move on and place your children in a school that will be more aligned with your way of thinking.

[pink caddy]

An interesting read: On City Data-Education-Teaching

[movingfromwestcoast]

Originally Posted by pink caddy

I am not going to belabor this any longer as I am not an expert on the subject matter. But, I know one thing, everyone of your questions/points/agendas can be answered pro and con on line. If you are satisfied with your opinions as to how to educate a child you should move on and place your children in a school that will be more aligned with your way of thinking.

I have not found any pros online for punitive approaches in elementary education. This approach is archaic. That is why I posted this question. In fact even the superintendent stated to me that you find the articles to show it yet they still use it. Again that is why I posted these questions as a concerned parent in the district.

Pink Caddy what is your relation to Savannah or the public schools in GA or even in the US?

[pink caddy]

Originally Posted by movingfromwestcoast

Pink Caddy what is your relation to Savannah or the public schools in GA or even in the US?

Everything you need to know is in my profile. Available to the public to read with disclaimers.

LOL over... "or in the U.S.?" I must have pushed one of your buttons mi amor.

[pink caddy]

I'm glad to see you took my advise and went over to the Education site of CD. Report back to us with your progress.

[Oldhag1]

Originally Posted by movingfromwestcoast

Here are my questions I asked the board and superintendent:

Can you provide research data/articles which show the benefits of yelling at children as a means to redirect them and create order during transitional times or during learning time? Can you show data which support control tactics as the best means to accomplish learning goals? Our understanding is the current data actually promotes a nurturing, loving and inquisitive environment to optimize learning. We are not seeing this in the schools at this time.

Please show research data/articles which support the music playing and strict no talking mandates during the lunch time as good tactics to children eating in a timely manner. What we have witnessed is a punitive approach of not allowing kids to talk quietly. We do not understand what harm will come with kids speaking softly during lunch and should they not finish their meal they could be placed at a ‘late’ table and have to finish lunch at that time, which also happens to be recess time for all students, since recess proceeds lunch. Very few children would want to miss recess. Lunch and recess times are vital periods where children learn peer-peer social skills and this is such an important acquisition skill which seems to be compromised with the current mandates in place.

Please show any data which supports recess denial as an effective punishment. Also please help us understand how psychologically healthy it is to punish the entire class with loss of recess for a few children’s poor behaviors. Additionally please explain how teachers can either threaten or remove recess time for children for days to weeks at a time and/or have the kids walk the playground repeatedly in an organized line during their recess time as a punishment. In our opinion and per the established research and APA Guidelines: ‘Children need recess. It is psychologically important.’

It is one sided because no one is answering.

Based on reading all your posts on this subject, in this forum and the other one: No one is answering you because, if your tone to them is similar to how you have presented your issue here, it is combative rather than solution seeking. If your response to questions or explanations from school system are similar to how you have reacted to posters here who are not in complete agreement with you, they probably think it matters not what they say, you have already made up your mind.

I taught full-time for 27 years and have subbed also. No, teachers shouldn't yell at kids as a general practice. No, it is not a wise idea to take away recess in large blocks of time. No, it is generally not smart for a teacher to punish an entire class for the actions of a few. But..... There is an issue if a child needs to be told repeatedly to do the same thing, whether it is tuck in their shirt or stay in line. By the way the third block line thing (second block depending on the school's tile configuration) is part of multiple widely used, successful school-wide discipline programs. Generally, these types of programs are implemented in schools where you have a large number of challenging students - which is almost always a struggling demographics issue, not a crappy school/teacher issue. Have you tried to manage a large group of uncooperative children? If you haven't, you can not begin to understand how difficult a task that is. Truthfully, it is surprising just how patient most teachers are.

Have you volunteered in classrooms at the school so that you are aware of what goes on in a regular classroom in that school? Are you being honest with yourself about your child's behavior?