Palmetto Pipeline Project to Condemn Private Property (Savannah, Richmond Hill: transporting, home)

[CoastalGAGuy]

Originally Posted by counterclockwise

Are you sure about that? I ran across this news article.
Dominion: Pipeline means $25M in property taxes - Work It, Lynchburg: News

Not sure how they do things in Lunchburg. In Georgia, your property taxes are not reduced when the state takes a part of your property through the eminent domain process. Palmetto Pipeline Raises Questions of Eminent Domain in Savannah, GA

[CoastalGAGuy]

Originally Posted by 912

Yet, I bet many would say, "drill baby, drill" when discussing energy independence......

Definitely. Same guys probably voted for McCain/Palin, who coined the phrase. What does that say about their true convictions?

[SavannahLife]

Originally Posted by 912

Only one informed person in the audience, I see. The rest simply acting like NIMBY's, being coerced by Big Landowners.

NIMBY HELL YEAH. That's right! Would you want it in your own back yard?

I know we all need oil, after all we all drive cars. But why do you want this thing 912?

This is a Big Deal. If they built the pipeline safely it'd be fine. But do you trust a company with Kinder Morgan's history? Imagine how much oil can leak out of a pipeline before it's detected a few days later. Imagine how far it will spread given the tide flows both ways in our rivers in this area. Do you ever get outside on the rivers or go boating or fishing or do you want your kids and family to be able to do those poster 912?

One of those Big Landowners 912 was a responsible conservative guy that does timber on his land and he spoke against it and he specifically said wetlands are particularly valuable kinds of land that we should protect and he even put a restriction into his deed on them. He had good points about the draconian way eminent domain is being used to take land.

I'm surprised anyone would be for this unless they own stock in the company, and care more about that than coastal Georgia's environment and the enjoyment of it by people present and future. Or are a welder. Or believe the information Kinder Morgan is giving out (the little vague things that they are) Lastly we already have pipeline operated by more responsible companies. We don't need Kinder Morgan.

Too bad they'll probably get a free pass from some DOT appointee. Their corporate lawyers outnumber Harold Yellin and us little people down here in Savannah and on the coast.

[912]

^The pipeline you refer to transports LNG from Elba Island to.....Jacksonville!
The name of the company that owns that pipeline is El Paso Energy. Wait! Not anymore! It's now owned (and been owned) by.....Kinder Morgan!

Last time I checked, LNG is not fuel oil.

"Big Land", Of course, isn't in favor of this proposition. If it's cutting across his property, he'll naturally come out against it.

I've stated numerous times why I'm in favor of the pipeline. Go back & read for yourself. I will point out with the recent rash of oil train fires, pipelines have proven themselves safe & reliable time & time again. So no, one can be pro-energy, pro-consumer AND pro-environment. To state otherwise is the height of arrogance.

[SavannahLife]

I'm well aware of the train catastrophes. Before we accept a pipeline such as this, a state law should be passed drastically strengthening construction quality and maintenance requirements. As is, I say it's a disaster waiting to happen, and probably will. You didn't answer whether you would want it on your own land.

I'm completely in favor of the LNG project. an LNG spill would be inconsequential, it's just natural gas that would evaporate. It's far enough away I think too that should it ignite it would not reach the city. That is why it is on an island. Plus natural gas burns cleaner. I'm all for it.

Kinder Morgan? No.

[SavannahLife]

Originally Posted by 912

The wetlands ARE uninhabitable swamp. The birds will continue to nest & the gators will continue to sun themselves, pipeline or no pipeline (which would be underground & not seen anyway). As for property owners, the research I've seen shows they're compensated very handsomely. Plus, pipeline owners tend to run pipes down existing rights of way, like high voltage power line paths. 349 property owners is a small number when considering the length of the project & the impact on those owners varies greatly in size...to a few feet for some.

Who cares where the terminus of the pipeline is...Savannah still reaps a HUGE benefit by having a second local wholesale terminal in Richmond Hill. Transport over pipeline vs. boat...from VENEZUELA (doesn't anyone have a problem with THAT!!??) would save at least $.20/gal on gas. As for the terminus being in Jax, that would benefit our neighbors in the south (Glynn, Camden, Charlton Counties, etc.) by lowering their fuel prices as well.

That said, I do disagree with strong arm tactics used by business or government to obtain rights of way. But, I also see lower gas prices in this region helping to continue to fire a robust economy. I'm in favor of the pipeline & I hope a solution to bring her through can be found.

912, what's in it for you?

912- What is your favorite part about living here, what do you enjoy the most? Do you get out on the rivers and if so what do you and your family and friends do on them? Will you be able enjoy these same activities after a spill? And would you want your own backyard seized or would you want this pipeline on your own property?

Do you think birds and gators will continue to sun themselves in the marsh after the pipeline hemorrhages petroleum product for a few days and the tide washes it both ways? Are you volunteering to go out there and wash off every last bird and blade of grass?

That "uninhabitable" swamp is what makes for for great fishing, bird watching, boating and scenery here. It's quality of life. Sorry Charlie but the promise for lower pump prices (which probably won't happen since they are keeping it a secret but are likely exporting the fuel) probably won't even happen and isn't worth it in my humble opinion even if true. And I don't give a care what Venezuela does. I care about Savannah.

[bellhead]

912,

Always posts conservative viewpoint, always... Hmm

There are paid conservative astroturfers everywhere these days, looks like we might have smoked one out on city-data.

[CoastalGAGuy]

Well, I take 912 at his/her word as an honest-to-goodness conservative person without a secret agenda. That's a perfectly allowable viewpoint for someone to have in this country, so I take no issue with that. However, 912 would have coastal Georgia look like Newark, New Jersey if it meant lower prices at the pump. I think it's fair to say, witnessing the turnout at the public hearing, most of coastal Georgia disagrees with him, me included. Is 912 on Kinder Morgan's payroll, or are you a stockholder? Because those are the only Georgians who will truly benefit besides the Governor.

This stuff is dangerous no matter how it's transported. Trains, trucks, ships... They all have accidents. Pipelines do too, 912, I hate to break it to you. They also have leaks -more often than do trucks, trains or even ships. I don't want to get into a battle over safer fuel oil shipping methods, but suffice it to say that they are all pretty risky, and each one has numerous horror stories, like this one, just a few days ago, in Fresno, CA: Fresno pipeline explosion closes Hwy. 99, injures 11 | News - KCRA Home.

How many gallons of diesel does a full fuel truck carry? About 9,000. How many gallons per day could flood down Kinder Morgan's Palmetto Pipeline? About 6.93 million, if they are to be believed. One truck accident equals, at most, a 9,000 gallon spill. A rupture occurs on the pipeline at any given point, and you could be looking at something that is a factor of MANY times worse, potentially ruining a fishery for generations. But, that's just uninhabitable swamp, right 912?

Kinder Morgan won't guarantee that our area will receive ANY of the fuel planned for transport. As a matter of fact, they approximate that they can only supply about 15% of their total capacity at most to our area. Where's the rest of the fuel going? Into ships docked in Jacksonville, bound for foreign markets, so let's get serious about the facts, and what Kinder Morgan's real agenda is here.

[toscgwsndiqz]

Originally Posted by counterclockwise

Do affected landowners get tax breaks on land devaluation?

We're still paying property taxes for the land under the Power line that runs thru the Savannah River Swamp even though it has no potential for producing income ever. Now they want 50 more feet! NIMBY

[SavannahLife]

CoastalGA I completely agree. Everyone has the right to post whatever they want.

That said, I think your point is the most important. When a pipeline leaks, the leak is huge.

There will be shutoff valves every 20 miles. That's a loooot of oil in between if there's a leak. Which may go undetected for days, while the tides wash it both ways. A lot more than a truck's worth. Now by rail and boat are more than by truck. And again, if only the company had a better record, maybe I'd reconsider. But it doesn't. It's owned by the former owners of Enron. That is kind of relevant when considering this.

However that is something I've always wondered. I've noticed in a lot of national news sites the comments sections are often filled with similar-sounding comments. Always conservative. Usually poor grammar. I have suspected that right-wing organizations have funded Indians or other countries with cheap telecommuter labor to flood the comments sections. And/or used computer programs to spam them. I'm fairly sure that is going on.

But I don't think that has reached City Data yet. (I hope?) 912 has been around too long and so I agree with you I'm sure they are a legitimate resident who has a conservative view. And that is great. That's what this place is all about. I'm just trying to appeal to you 912. If we could go through time to the future where there was a spill and you see the actual consequences I truly believe you would see it is not worth the risk. Moreover, as a conservative the eminent domain issue is almost as bad and will certainly have far-reaching unintended consequences as a legal precedent. Plus, since the fuel is all going to be exported anyway it probably won't do anything to area gas prices. And they'll just import experienced field crews from other states for project anyway.