Georgia Ports planning $1.8 Billion facility on Hutchinson Island (Savannah, Montgomery: gardens, moving)

[Airforceguy]

Originally Posted by GA Survivor

The Houlihan is an interesting idea and would be easy to tie into Jimmy Deloach. They are trying to find a dedicated truck route up 21 to 95 currently. I just looked at SAGIS and interestingly enough, a single company owns all the land from Jimmy DeLoach in line to 17 by the Weyerhaeuser entrance with one piece even being a long narrow piece on the North side that could be used as a roadway. There just isn't easy way to get to the current Ports or Hutchison Port. I think they are going to attempt to divert as much as possible to rail and eventually we see a new Talmadge to Interstate standard and 4 lanes each way to Interstate 95. South Carolina will be left to flounder until they can get their own funding squared away. The biggest issue is if you look at the new Talmadge with an additional 55'+ feet in height over the river channel will require the approach to elevate and reconstruct the roadway back to Gwinnett, which conveniently buys out Chatham Steel to straighten the curve and would set up Gwinnett as a "Gateway" entrance (first or last exit to Savannah) and make their "Canal District" and new Arena that much more valuable and a "great" decision by the city.

You raise some interesting points. If the state is trying to get more freight diverted to rail, that would require more grade-separated crossings as the longer and more frequent trains would make traffic worse. If I were in charge of GDOT I would make SR-21 a freeway. I know a study was a done a decade ago that basically called for building elevated express toll lanes from I-516 to I-95. A project similar to this could help. With regards to South Carolina, they are planning to widen U.S. 17 to four lanes from the state line to SC-315. That project should start after they finish relocating gas lines. Also a second back river span is planned to begin sometime next year or 2021.

[GA Survivor]

As I understand it, the mega-rail project is "supposed" to lessen the at grade issues since trains will be built on site and only need to pass thru on 21, eliminating the sitting blocking the road. The elevated road plan, I think was where the "truck route" plan came from. If they built an elevated road from the port entrance at the end of Dean Forest/Bourne Ave to Jimmy DeLoach and then Jimmy DeLoach to I-95 would help tremendously. I really don't think SC should add another Back River bridge, it will be obsolete in less than 10 years if a new bridge is built.

[beach43ofus]

How is all the existing port traffic helping the Savannah area? Are you seeing the tax revenues being spent there? Are you seeing the benefits of thr port as is? Are you in favor of making it all bigger?

[TheDarkKnight]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

How is all the existing port traffic helping the Savannah area? Are you seeing the tax revenues being spent there? Are you seeing the benefits of thr port as is? Are you in favor of making it all bigger?

It's funny to me that they find the tunnel to be too expensive when they're spending billions on expanding the port. Since its the 3rd busiest port in the country you'd think it wouldn't be that expensive of a cost.

[masonbauknight]

Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight

It's funny to me that they find the tunnel to be too expensive when they're spending billions on expanding the port. Since its the 3rd busiest port in the country you'd think it wouldn't be that expensive of a cost.

"Third busiest" based on total containers handled. Some small Gulf port towns handle lots of containers, too, in proportion to their population. Savannah is a metro of just 400,000. Mega-metros like Miami (6 million) and Va. Beach-Norfolk-Hampton (1.7 million) get tunnels because those tunnels serve far more people. Small coastal cities subject to rain.flooding like Savannah don't justify that kind of cost and risk. A new downriver bridge east of Savannah (clearance, wetlands engineering) would have a price tag way above a new Talmadge Bridge. A state-of-the-art tunnel would be similar. That might get approved for Tampa-St. Pete, but never for Savannah.

[WanderingImport]

Originally Posted by masonbauknight

"Third busiest" based on total containers handled. Some small Gulf port towns handle lots of containers, too, in proportion to their population. Savannah is a metro of just 400,000. Mega-metros like Miami (6 million) and Va. Beach-Norfolk-Hampton (1.7 million) get tunnels because those tunnels serve far more people. Small coastal cities subject to rain.flooding like Savannah don't justify that kind of cost and risk. A new downriver bridge east of Savannah (clearance, wetlands engineering) would have a price tag way above a new Talmadge Bridge. A state-of-the-art tunnel would be similar. That might get approved for Tampa-St. Pete, but never for Savannah.

Sometimes it’s not always about population figures, but political will power and those politicians in Atlanta lately have been recognizing the power the ports has on Georgia’s economy. Once seemingly silly projects like the Jimmy DeLoach connector next to the ports, 16’s expansion (yes, we all know 16 can be a pain at rush hour and traffic has noticeably increased over the last 10 years but it’s still a piece of cake compared to anything traffic-wise in metro Atlanta) among other things are and have been done because they’re mainly in close proximity to the economic engine of the ports.

Not saying it will happen, but stranger things have happened. Let’s see how strong the political will is for these big ticket items.

[GA Survivor]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

How is all the existing port traffic helping the Savannah area? Are you seeing the tax revenues being spent there? Are you seeing the benefits of thr port as is? Are you in favor of making it all bigger?

There are additional revenue mainly from the warehouses and tax revenue but not as much as we should due to SEDA owning the land and getting tax breaks for 10 years. JCB just started paying taxes in 2018 for their land. There are a lot of warehouse and temp jobs but not high paying positions except for a few. Tourism is driving a lot of hotels and service industry jobs, again low paying and very vulnerable to the economy. It would be a huge deal to get a corporate office with 600-700 jobs or a major manufacturing plant with 1500+ jobs but the state has too many other places they are trying to appease. Overall it helps but it appears we will remain a middle class metro area with the economy very dependent on tourism and trade wars.

[masonbauknight]

Originally Posted by WanderingImport

Not saying it will happen, but stranger things have happened. Let’s see how strong the political will is for these big ticket items.

It would take political will AND billions of dollars Georgia really doesn't have (if it did, the state would spend it on other transportation priorities). For small metros, tunnels underneath and super-engineered wetlands bridges overhead are dreams. Not saying they're not nice dreams though.

[Airforceguy]

Kinda off topic, but I could see the city using the need for a new Talmadge bridge to push for reconfiguring I-16 in DT Savannah. I know with new arena/canal district getting underway, opening up the westside to redevelopment is a top priority of the city and removing the I-16 flyover would open up a lot of land for development.

[GA Survivor]

Originally Posted by Airforceguy

Kinda off topic, but I could see the city using the need for a new Talmadge bridge to push for reconfiguring I-16 in DT Savannah. I know with new arena/canal district getting underway, opening up the westside to redevelopment is a top priority of the city and removing the I-16 flyover would open up a lot of land for development.

I think you are right on topic. If you look at 16, the bridge will go to the West of the current bridge sweep back and remove Chatham Steel. Eliminating the Oglethorpe entrance/exit, Louisville road entrance/exit and the Montgomery St exit with the MLK overpass. A large entrance/exit will be constructed at a sweeping boulevard of Gwinnett St to be the signature entrance to Savannah and continue the Canal District and Revitalization of the corridor and MLK intersection. The housing projects on both side will be demolished for the widened Gwinnett and new MLK with raised medians and walking paths along with new commericial with residential above. MLK will be totally redone from 37th north to Bay with Gwinnett to Louisville the center piece. The remaining projects at Henry/Anderson and replacements will be built along the East side of the canal back to the new I-16 laid out in new squares and will be similiar to Savannah Gardens rebuilt mixed uses. The whole project will run almost 3 billion dollars with the ports paying around 2.5 billion while HUD and other federal grants drops in another 300 million while SPLOST and bonds make up the last 200 million. It will be a 15 year project from now with the bridge started in 8 years, finished in 10 while the city start moving/demolishing and rebuilding the housing portions starting at the 5 year mark and running out to year 15.