   City-Data Forum 4D bohr model (power, electric, physics, system)
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 granpa 2,854 posts, read 1,613,031 times Reputation: 348

the bohr model has only one variable., the "n" quantum number which represents the distance between the nucleus and the orbiting electron.

However in 4 spatial dimensions a rotating object can rotate in 2 different ways simultaneously.
A rotating electron cloud would therefore have 2 variables.
this could explain not just the "n" quantum number but also the "l" quantum number.

Aufbau principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

orbitals with a lower n + l value are filled before those with higher n + l values   granpa 2,854 posts, read 1,613,031 times Reputation: 348
if the atom is 4 dimensional, and I am not saying that it is but IF it is,
and if this explains the order of filling of orbitals, and I am not saying that it does but IF it does,
then the following would have to be true   15,922 posts, read 17,881,000 times Reputation: 7647
Quote:
 Originally Posted by granpa the bohr model has only one variable., the "n" quantum number which represents the distance between the nucleus and the orbiting electron. However in 4 spatial dimensions a rotating object can rotate in 2 different ways simultaneously. A rotating electron cloud would therefore have 2 variables. this could explain not just the "n" quantum number but also the "l" quantum number. Aufbau principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia orbitals with a lower n + l value are filled before those with higher n + l values
And the point of the OP is?  granpa 2,854 posts, read 1,613,031 times Reputation: 348
in 4D the electric field follows an inverse cube law
which is exactly what the force due to centrifugal force follows
(if angular momentum is constant)

so the net effect of the electric field is simply to reduce but not eliminate the centrifugal force.

if so then there must be another force to keep the electron cloud in orbit.

if this force follows a first power law (like the strong force)
then the math becomes extremely simple.
(even for complex 4D orbitals with different radii in different dimensions  Location: Westwood, MA 3,837 posts, read 4,948,771 times Reputation: 4879
Quote:
 Originally Posted by granpa the bohr model has only one variable., the "n" quantum number which represents the distance between the nucleus and the orbiting electron. However in 4 spatial dimensions a rotating object can rotate in 2 different ways simultaneously. A rotating electron cloud would therefore have 2 variables. this could explain not just the "n" quantum number but also the "l" quantum number. Aufbau principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia orbitals with a lower n + l value are filled before those with higher n + l values
You're trying to solve a problem that was solved nearly a century ago. The Bohr model gave way to wave mechanics, which did a much better job of explaining experimental results. The "n" and "l" quantum numbers are the eigenvalues of the radial and angular parts of the Schrodinger equation.

QED does an even better job. QED is a 4 (3 space + time) dimensional theory formulated with inherent Lorentz invariance. Is that what you mean by a 4 dimensional theory? You certainly don't need 4 dimensions to explain the atom, as 3 dimensional wave mechanics explains the bulk of atomic physics. You definitely don't need 4 spatial dimensions.  granpa 2,854 posts, read 1,613,031 times Reputation: 348
you will notice that the spherical orbitals (11, 22, 33, 44, 55)
are not where conventional theory says they would be
(which is in the first column)  granpa 2,854 posts, read 1,613,031 times Reputation: 348
in 4 spatial dimensions the magnetic field is no longer a vector field.
it becomes a bi-vector field.

instead of there being a vector with a certain orientation and magnitude at each point
there is a plane with a certain orientation and magntitude at each point

Last edited by granpa; 08-08-2012 at 06:24 AM..  granpa 2,854 posts, read 1,613,031 times Reputation: 348
Quote:
 Originally Posted by granpa in 4D the electric field follows an inverse cube law which is exactly what the force due to centrifugal force follows (if angular momentum is constant) so the net effect of the electric field is simply to reduce but not eliminate the centrifugal force. if so then there must be another force to keep the electron cloud in orbit. if this force follows a first power law (like the strong force) then the math becomes extremely simple. (even for complex 4D orbitals with different radii in different dimensions

Angular momentum isnt constant.

Its quantized but it isnt constant.  Location: Westwood, MA 3,837 posts, read 4,948,771 times Reputation: 4879
Quote:
 Originally Posted by granpa Please ignore the comment about centrifugal force. Angular momentum isnt constant. Its quantized but it isnt constant.
In an isolated system angular momentum is both quantized and conserved. You should ignore the comment about centrifugal force because the electron is delocalized and in the ground state the angular momentum is zero. It does not orbit the nucleus like a planet.  granpa 2,854 posts, read 1,613,031 times Reputation: 348
in the ground state orbital angular momentum is zero but spin is not

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