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Old 06-27-2012, 08:47 AM
 
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Many of the bigwigs in the physics world are predicting that at next weeks International Conference on High Energy Physics (Melbourne, Australia july 4 - july 11) that the LHC scientists there will announce that they have indeed discovered proof of the Higgs Boson existence. If so i'm wonder how will this either advance or answer questions about particle science? I reciently heard a famed british physicist state that if the Higgs Boson does exist then it would be a good candidate for the ''ignitor'' of the big bang as i'm curious what NightBazaar and other physicist guru's on here think about that?

Physics Community Afire With Rumors of Higgs Boson Discovery - Wired.com
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:53 PM
 
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The conference was indicated a few months or so ago. It stirred a lot of speculation as to what the announcement would be about. Cern has dropped a few nuggets along the way, but nothing dazzling. All they've said so far is that it looks like they're on the right track and getting closer to pinning down where the Higgs boson is hiding. It's hard to guess what the announcement is going to reveal, but I wouldn't be too surprised that it may be more of the same: on the right track and getting closer. They clearly need to say something to justify the expense. Hopefully they'll announce that they now have clear evidence of the Higgs, that it exists. As I understand, they've been pouring over the mountain of data with two different teams examining the same data. The teams are kept separate to make sure both teams reach the same conclusion. We'll find out what they have to say at the conference in July.

There's more to the Higgs than just the boson. Presumably, if the boson does exist, it will go a long way in explaining why some particles have mass and some don't. It will also imply a Higgs field. Some theorists have proposed that there could be more than one Higgs field, the others could be extremely difficult to identify, if not impossible (it could require a LOT more energy than the LHC have available). But even identifying the boson would be a major step forward.

I'm not sure about how the Higgs would act as an "ignitor" of the Big Bang. That would however shed some light closer to the origin of the Big Bang. As an ignitor, would that mean the Higgs and the Higgs field preexisted the Big Bang? Or did it just pop into existence with no apparent cause? It really would open up a whole new way of thinking about the Big Bang and the universe.

Speaking of the Big Bang, I came across an interesting article (and video) of the hotness of the Big Bang quark soup. The RHIC at Brookhaven Lab produced temps of 4 TRILLION degrees, a fraction of aa second after the Big Bang. Ouch! That'd leave a blister!

Big-bang soup wins hotness record - Cosmic Log




Hot Quark Soup Produced at RHIC - YouTube
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:04 AM
 
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Yeap 4 trillion degrees is definately up there as i'm surprised those kind of temps wouldn't have melted the RHIC (collider) .

As for the unknown ''ignitor'' i guess my thoughts about it are that if our current universe was at one time a molecular pinhead then whatever particle(s) were responsible for the initial cosmic blast before the Planck Epoch then at least theoretically shouldn't that undetectable particle(s) be somewhere in our current expanded galaxy and is there for some future astrophysicist to discover? What'd ya think NB?

Just read this article about how several astrophysicists/astronomers were stating how the universe could have indeed just popped into existence with no need of a ''god'' to do so,

The Big Bang Didn't Need God | Creation of the Universe | Space.com
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:18 AM
 
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Quote from cited article: "So it could be that this universe is merely the science fair project of a kid in another universe," Shostak added. "I don't know how that affects your theological leanings, but it is something to consider."

"Yeap 4 trillion degrees is definately up there as i'm surprised those kind of temps wouldn't have melted the RHIC (collider) . "

Put the two together and you have BBQ. That might explain our inherent love for the stuff, the whole "burnt oblations" worship and burning corpses ideology.

I have no idea how the universe formed. These guys are pretty smart and I'd suspect they are on the right track. One oddball idea I have had is that the whole initial expansion process has similarities to explosions and balloons bursting, which both relate to a sudden RELEASE of energy from a static state with higher energy potential. Could it be that there was a tear in the dimensions where the energy of one (unknown) dimension suddenly was dropped into a tiny pinprick of a hole in another? In some ways, it would seem to fit. The big negative to that is that it extrapolates based on our knowledge of the current universe, which might have as much validity as weighing a witch against a duck.
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
One oddball idea I have had is that the whole initial expansion process has similarities to explosions and balloons bursting, which both relate to a sudden RELEASE of energy from a static state with higher energy potential.
In other words our good friend ..... Stored Energy .
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
Yeap 4 trillion degrees is definately up there as i'm surprised those kind of temps wouldn't have melted the RHIC (collider) .


Quote:
As for the unknown ''ignitor'' i guess my thoughts about it are that if our current universe was at one time a molecular pinhead then whatever particle(s) were responsible for the initial cosmic blast before the Planck Epoch then at least theoretically shouldn't that undetectable particle(s) be somewhere in our current expanded galaxy and is there for some future astrophysicist to discover? What'd ya think NB?
I'm not sure there necessarily had to be any particles to trigger the Big Bang before the Planck Epoch. It'll be interesting to see what sort of information comes out of the conference. I don't know if the Higgs boson would have played a role in starting the Big Bang, but it is thought it could have played a major role in terms of changing physics with regard to the speed and magnitude of the expansion of the universe from the inflationary phase. That would've followed the Big Bang rather than trigger it. It would however suggest the Higgs and the Higgs field would've been present very early on. I'm still leaning toward a vaccum fluctuation in some kind of energetic quantum foam. It'll be interesting to see what turns up at the conference.
Can The Higgs Boson And Scale Invariance Explain The Big Bang?

The Known Particles — If The Higgs Field Were Zero | Of Particular Significance

This one is really interesting in that it examines a number of different scenarios pertaining to possible origins of the universe.
The Observable Universe and Beyond


Quote:
Just read this article about how several astrophysicists/astronomers were stating how the universe could have indeed just popped into existence with no need of a ''god'' to do so,

The Big Bang Didn't Need God | Creation of the Universe | Space.com
That was pretty much Stephen Hawking's view as well. In a nutshell, it simply suggests the Big Bang as a process. It doesn't include or exclude why the process happened in the first place.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:22 AM
 
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''In the infant universe, the Higgs, in a condensate phase, would have behaved in a very special way and in doing so changed the laws of physics''.

Interesting read NB .
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
''In the infant universe, the Higgs, in a condensate phase, would have behaved in a very special way and in doing so changed the laws of physics''.

Interesting read NB .
This change of physics relates to any number of things that if slightly different would've produced very different results. The inflating space on the fledgling universe could've just as easily have collapsed in on itself, or if particle had it could've been expanding space unable to produce any matter, or any number of other weird outcomes. As it turned out, with something like the Higgs, particles passing through the Higgs field are thought to have obtained different mass, as opposed to everything being massless.

There are a lot of questions I don't clearly understand. I presume I'm not the only one wondering. Were the Higgs and Higgs field generated by the Big Bang? Or did they preexist the Big Bang? What exactly was the special behavior of the Higgs in a condensate stage that ultimately changed the laws of physics in the universe? Even though there are loads of unanswered questions, confirming the Higgs boson would provide a major stepping stone in the Standard Model to build on.

But wait! There's more! Call within the next 15 minutes and we'll double your order, no, quadruple your order! Interestingly, the Higgs boson and the Higgs field isn't likely to be the end of the story. There might be four real components (or two complex components) to the Higgs field. In other words, the "Higgs field" may be "a collection of four fields that rotate into each other under symmetry."
Why We Need the Higgs, or Something Like It | Cosmic Variance | Discover Magazine
Higgs mechanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
This change of physics relates to any number of things that if slightly different would've produced very different results. The inflating space on the fledgling universe could've just as easily have collapsed in on itself, or if particle had it could've been expanding space unable to produce any matter, or any number of other weird outcomes. As it turned out, with something like the Higgs, particles passing through the Higgs field are thought to have obtained different mass, as opposed to everything being massless.

There are a lot of questions I don't clearly understand. I presume I'm not the only one wondering. Were the Higgs and Higgs field generated by the Big Bang? Or did they preexist the Big Bang? What exactly was the special behavior of the Higgs in a condensate stage that ultimately changed the laws of physics in the universe? Even though there are loads of unanswered questions, confirming the Higgs boson would provide a major stepping stone in the Standard Model to build on.

But wait! There's more! Call within the next 15 minutes and we'll double your order, no, quadruple your order! Interestingly, the Higgs boson and the Higgs field isn't likely to be the end of the story. There might be four real components (or two complex components) to the Higgs field. In other words, the "Higgs field" may be "a collection of four fields that rotate into each other under symmetry."
Why We Need the Higgs, or Something Like It | Cosmic Variance | Discover Magazine
Higgs mechanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Error correction above. Sorry about that. That should've been:
"...if particles had been any different, the universe could've been unable to produce any matter..." That would've made for a dark expansion of space.

The same thing applies to forces. For example, had Gravity been any stronger, space could've collapsed in on itself almost as soon as inflation began.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:06 AM
 
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As can be expected, there can be a lot of hype and speculation as to what the announcement will be. Although there's been no official word, but the unofficial word is that either one team or both will have reached a 5 sigma level of significance. Sigma levels are statstical levels for partical physics. A 5 sigma level would mean there's a 1 in 3 million chance the stats are wrong. A 3 sigma level means a 1 in 1000 chance. A 5 sigma level would mean what the data shows is beyond the shadow of a doubt, and time to break out the champagne to celebrate. But we won't know for sure until the announcement on July 4.

Here's an interesting blog looking at the current pre-announcement buzz.

Higgs boson buzz hits new high - Cosmic Log
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