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Old 07-15-2012, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Finally escaped The People's Republic of California
11,120 posts, read 7,743,101 times
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Most of the Cougars and Bears in the lower 48 know that Humans are the apex predator. Thier mothers have ran and hid from humans, as did thier grandmothers. Ever since man introduced firearms to the continent, he has been the top dog so to speak. Wild animals adapt to thier enviroment, and have learned to fear us.
It interesting to watch the coyotes near my work, they will circle around you always staying about 250 to 300 yards away. Makes me think that was about the limit that most folks could shoot most of them old black powder rifles.
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,824 posts, read 20,773,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
There is a whole lot of argument about the Clovis people within history circles. I'd be cautious citing them as the existence and timelines are still in flux.
There is no argument that the Clovis people existed in North America. Nor is there any argument about when they were wiped off the continent. The geological evidence is conclusive. The dispute is where the Clovis people originated. It was thought from Asia across the land bridge, but some now think it was from Europe across the Atlantic.

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Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
You missed my point on insect predators. We, as humans, do not have the muscle mass to be a threat to lions or grizzly bears, yet we ARE predators through a different mechanism. Fleas were unwitting predators of humans during the great plagues. Size isn't everything.
Humans can predate on larger animals through the use of tools. Our superior intelligence can compensate for our physical weakness. Fleas are not predators of humans, they are parasites. Predators are organisms that hunt, humans are not hunted by insects. "Size isn't everything" is a myth.
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
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Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
I've discussed the Younger Dryas Impact hypotheses here before on another thread (''10,000 Year Old Prefectly Preserved Mammoth Found'') as i agree with Dr. Allen West's hypotheses about an meteor striking North America to which had an negative effect on the super large flora & fauna including the ''Clovis Peoples''. However it's impacr doesn't explain why South America, Europe (including neanderthals), Asia and Australia apex predators became extinct.
We have direct evidence of something catastrophic occurring on the North American continent 13,000 years ago. While they have found no impact crater there is evidence off massive burning and destruction almost over the entire continent. Destruction on that scale is going to impact the environment. Furthermore, asteroid impacts are not always singular. During the Triassic-Jurassic extinction event, for example, they have found meteor impacts in Canada, Minnesota, France and the Ukraine.

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Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
So be it as that's your opinion.

In my opinion for ancient human beings to had survived all of what the earth threw at them i.e. extreme weather & temperatures, using only stone & wood tools/weapons, being able to locate and secure food/water provisions all whilest trying to keep from being killed by numerous types of carnivorous predators from the advent of ''Mitochrondria Eve'' 180,000 BCE up to the advent of proto agriculture 15,000 BCE and ''didn't'' become extinct as had every other genus of human beings since Australopithecus (1.8 million BCE) are some ''badasses''.
Surviving the Toba eruption, between 69,000 and 75,000 years ago, does not make them a "badass," particularly when those survivors were on the other side of the planet. Even still, it almost wiped out modern man. We just happened to be in the right place at the right time.
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
And that is my point of wonderment, what other animal other than humans or perhaps wolves could claim that they are rarely attack by grizzlies except...

You'd think that their is some institutional knowledge on the part of grizzlies that those two legged things aren't to be messed with unless absolutely necessary.
I do not think there is any institutional knowledge. We simply are not part of their normal environment. Bears, however, are opportunity eaters and omnivores. They will kill, as well as scavenge, eat meat, fish, fruit, and vegetation. There are even grizzlies in the Rocky Mountains that feed on moths for their fat.

Yellowstone National Park: Yellowstone Grizzly Bears Eat 40,000 Moths a Day In August

Bears, like most predators (and critters in general), will stick with what they know. Humans are an unknown to them. They will not risk an encounter with humans, unless they have no other choice.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
I do not think there is any institutional knowledge.
It was a joke.

Quote:
Bears, like most predators (and critters in general), will stick with what they know. Humans are an unknown to them. They will not risk an encounter with humans, unless they have no other choice.
Well, maybe I wasn't joking a little. There are bears that are generationally aware of humans and still choose to keep their distance. For example generations of Polar bears have grown up near Churchill, Manitoba and the there have only been two fatal bear attacks since 1917.
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:32 PM
 
981 posts, read 2,084,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I curious to understand why humans are not the prey of choice for top level predators? While examples of "man hunters" can be found in every group of top level predators, predatory attacks on humans are the exception not the norm, which is counter intuitive considering the speed, power, and defensive capabilities of unarmed humans, or have these predators had enough experience with armed humans to just stay the hell away - I doubt the later but I'm at a loss for explanations.
The vertical stance of humans might make predator animals instinctively balk, since quick access to the neck (their typical target zone) is not as simple. This is just a guess.

Conversely, according to wingnuts, anything with four legs and canine teeth is an automatic threat to Man and must be shot on sight. Yes, I'm referring to mindless wolf-haters, etc.
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:23 PM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
5,008 posts, read 11,053,924 times
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I think there's a few reasons.

1) The ancient humans, before hunter-gatherer societies and then farming societies, knew when to stay the hell away from animals that could hunt them. They'd be like vultures and pick at the remains. Apes today know how to pick at bone marrow. We probably did the same when we were apes.

2) We usually kill any animal that realizes we're easy kill. Evidence of that exists from today (park rangers shooting animals that stalk or kill humans) to historical records.

3) We're not very high in the nutrition scale. Modern epochs aside, humans have a very low strength scale and even our biggest musclebound folks have tons of wasted space and too many internal organs making up too much of our bodies. Many other animals have much more meaty goodness in them.

4) We tend to expand into territory that doesn't necessarily harbor the kind of life density that pack hunters need to survive. We can go into the desert and scrape out an existence eating bugs, plants, roots, and eating some hearty potatoes and things of the sort. But there wouldn't be enough of us to last long for predators, so they didn't follow.

I'm sure there are others but #1 and #4 tops my list of reasons why we survived.
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:22 PM
 
31,372 posts, read 32,966,768 times
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Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
3) We're not very high in the nutrition scale. Modern epochs aside, humans have a very low strength scale and even our biggest musclebound folks have tons of wasted space and too many internal organs making up too much of our bodies. Many other animals have much more meaty goodness in them.
That's my favorite.
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