U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-16-2012, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,400 posts, read 20,019,364 times
Reputation: 11072

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
Nah not really (exhausting) as most of those assigned to the ''working party'' are mostly E-1 - E-3 and they're mostly reciently out of high school age range and so they've got plenty of young energy. As for the shells exploding upon impact if accidently dropped while i never did ask nor were we told however i kinda figured that they wouldn't explode although it still kind of made wonder ''just what if'' .

Anyway PITTS i think that we navy vets here should make you an honorary Naval Weapons Officer here at city data as you're definately schooled up on our Navy's weapon systems past, current and in the coming future .
THANKYOU 6 Foot.........

I gladly accept Honorary Naval Weapon's Systems Officer designation! .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-16-2012, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,513 posts, read 51,102,721 times
Reputation: 20502
Quote:
Originally Posted by PITTSTON2SARASOTA View Post
... However remember our escort subs are not only monitoring enemy subs...attempting to Destroy/Disable them BUT relaying coordinate information to our Guided Missile Cruisers and Destroyers Equipped with RUR-5-ASROC ASROC (for Anti-Submarine ROCket) is an all-weather, all sea-conditions anti-submarine missile system.

RUR-5 ASROC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The 31 U.S. Navy Spruance-class destroyers were all built with the Mark 16 Mod 7 ASROC Launching Group and MK 4 ASROC Weapons Handling System (AWHS) reload system.

Most Spruance-class destroyers were later modified to include the Mk 41 VLS, these launchers are capable of carrying a mixture of the VL-ASROC.

The Arlegh Burke Class Destroyers also possess torpedo launchers..... Mark 54 MAKO Lightweight Torpedo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ticonderoga and other escort ships also carry triple torpedo tube launchers> Mark 32 Surface Vessel Torpedo Tubes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Carry all the weapons you want.

If you can not find a target, they do no good.



Quote:
...
Aircraft also use Magnetic Anomaly Detection to detect submarines>>>> http://www.cae.com/en/military/_pdf/...ion.system.pdf
I have had opportunity to work with some of that equipment.



Quote:
...
Sonar has also advanced since WWII and current systems are highly classified>>>>> Sonar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These ships carry both Active Sonar and Towed Sonar Arrays and SonoBuoys; the latter two can also be used by aircraft....
That too.

The best towed arrays are on subs. Targets cavitate too much for them to work properly.



I have actually spent time doing ASW Ops. Noise-makers welded to our hull for weeks at a time, doing everything we could to try to get P-3s to find us. Dropping sonobuoys and dipping active sonar from helos. It is crazy how much noise combatants make during those operations to help the targets to acquire them.



Quote:
...
We also have submarine detection systems embedded on the Ocean floor at strategic points around the Globe.
I am familiar with SOSUS.

Did I mention that I did over 20 years in the field?



Quote:
...
Virtually NO submarine can leave port without The United States already knowing/following it.
Satellites do a great job that that part of it.

Does not change the subject though.

Simply because we see a vessel leave port via satellite, and our subs can hear/track the vessel; has nothing to do with surface vessels 'following' it.



Quote:
...
As far as I am aware NO Soviet sub ever left port without being shadowed by United States Attack Subs ...... any other potential adversary like China has relatively LOUD deisel powered submarines easy to detect with modern surveillance methods. Few Navies possess Nuclear powered submarines. There is a SOSUS system in the Pacific but it too is highly classified.

SOSUS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Shadowed the entire time? No, that rarely ever happened.

Thermal-layers and 'ice-picking' allow them to 'get away' far too easily.



That fact remains that today, there is no surface target vessel that presents any more than a marginal 'threat' to our subs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2012, 08:29 AM
 
13,138 posts, read 37,324,951 times
Reputation: 12153
Submariner,

How was the technology of our SSN's in locating the Soviet subs and vice versa?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2012, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,513 posts, read 51,102,721 times
Reputation: 20502
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
Submariner,

How was the technology of our SSN's in locating the Soviet subs and vice versa?
I was never on a vessel that did any sneak-peek Ops. I have had many friends who did that stuff. We learned a lot from close-up detailed photos of Soviet sub screws, undersides, how their glued-on sonar tiles looked, even the details of sensor components mounted on their rudders. Our subs were routinely able to get fairly close to Soviet subs without detection.

Prior to J.Walker giving secrets to the Soviets, they had no concept of sound deadening or resonance-harmonics-tuning. Soviet subs were commonly compared to freight trains in the water. They were loud and rattled. Anyone paying attention could hear them at great distance and avoid them.

They might occasionally get up close to us by using thermal-gradients so we could not hear them coming. I hate to call that 'sneaking' since they could not hear us either in that situation. The incident of us getting close to each other like that was purely by accident. We could change depths, go from one thermal-layer with great sound-ducting [hearing things from a good distance in all directions] into a different gradient and suddenly detect a Soviet near-by whose noise had not carried far in the previous gradient.

On one patrol our boat experienced a near collision due to a Soviet sub rapidly changing operating depth and suddenly being directly over us. We got pretty shaken from the prop-wash of the Soviet boat, in that incident the Soviets never caught on that we were there. They just kept going, making so much noise that it entirely masked any noise we made.

Periscope mounted sonar units allow us to poke that periscope up into the gradient above us and hear if there was anyone in the area before rising the entire sub up into that gradient.

Generally if we move from gradient to gradient, clearing our baffles in each as we go; then we can maintain a clear picture of everyone within 500nm [except for a few anomalies like bergs, or DIW vessels].

Because Soviets were so loud, they had to develop different tactics. Being loud themselves, their sonar never worked very good anyway, they never developed any trust in sonar, so they put lots of focus on wake-following and H2 analysis.

Where we like Active Sonar torpedoes, they like wake-homing torpedoes. Two entirely different ways of looking at the topic.

Just like the difference between having spring-steel hulls vs. titanium hulls; one is flexible, it changes shape and size at will, the other is hard and brittle. Two entirely different mindsets.

They developed ice-picking and entire ship systems to take advantage of that technique. When moored to a berg and operating on battery, nobody can detect them. But on the other hand, they are moored, can not maneuver and it takes time to start up all ships systems.

The same goes for multi-national 'war games' using diesel subs. They stay in shallow waters along the coast. So from the deep blue listening for them, their sounds are masked by the surf-noise behind them. While they are capable of maneuvering out to the 100-fathom curve and dropping down, they would lose the background noise that masks them and become vulnerable to the bigger fish out in the deep. Each tool has it's pros and cons, which then develops your tactics.

The USSR collapsed before they really had good opportunity to make use of the tech they gained from spies. Now much of that tech has flowed to China and India.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2012, 04:29 PM
 
Location: the Beaver State
6,466 posts, read 11,868,627 times
Reputation: 3546
I'm a fan of the USS Oregon. Few ships have been able to single handedly change history. Nor have many ships been present at so many significant points in American History.



Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2012, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,400 posts, read 20,019,364 times
Reputation: 11072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Carry all the weapons you want.

If you can not find a target, they do no good.





I have had opportunity to work with some of that equipment.





That too.

The best towed arrays are on subs. Targets cavitate too much for them to work properly.





I have actually spent time doing ASW Ops. Noise-makers welded to our hull for weeks at a time, doing everything we could to try to get P-3s to find us. Dropping sonobuoys and dipping active sonar from helos. It is crazy how much noise combatants make during those operations to help the targets to acquire them.





I am familiar with SOSUS.

Did I mention that I did over 20 years in the field?





Satellites do a great job that that part of it.

Does not change the subject though.

Simply because we see a vessel leave port via satellite, and our subs can hear/track the vessel; has nothing to do with surface vessels 'following' it.





Shadowed the entire time? No, that rarely ever happened.

Thermal-layers and 'ice-picking' allow them to 'get away' far too easily.



That fact remains that today, there is no surface target vessel that presents any more than a marginal 'threat' to our subs.
ROFL........the topic was SUBS being a threat to SURFACE vessels!

I already explained how subs are targeted.

Planes have ZERO cavitation problems so are FAR better than submarines at detecting underwater noise....The best towed arrays are on Airplanes NOT submarines.

And what depth were you at while the Orions hunted you...subs cannot acquire targets NOR use offensive weaponry, in general, below periscope depth.

We've already both agreed submarines are the major combatant/threat to other submarines.

You don't need to get snarky...Did I mention I Double Majored in Sciences at a prestigious Major University.

I completely disagree...Soviet Subs were shadowed throughout the Cold War.

There is NO way they could get out of their Sea Ports without passing by SOSUS....and satellites constantly monitored their bases for activity/departures.


A Cold War Fought Deep

COLD WAR SUBMARINE OPERATIONS BY THE SOVIET BLOC

Preparing for Today

Russian subs stalk Trident in echo of Cold War - Telegraph

Asia Times Online :: China News, China Business News, Taiwan and Hong Kong News and Business.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB75/




ASROC A/Sub Missile Firing- GREEK NAVY - YouTube

And this debate is getting completely off thread topic. Start another thread IF you want to debate submarines versus surface vessels.

Last edited by PITTSTON2SARASOTA; 09-17-2012 at 09:18 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2012, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,400 posts, read 20,019,364 times
Reputation: 11072
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamellr View Post
I'm a fan of the USS Oregon. Few ships have been able to single handedly change history. Nor have many ships been present at so many significant points in American History.


Very Cool...thanx for posting and pictures.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2012, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,400 posts, read 20,019,364 times
Reputation: 11072
WASP Class Amphibious Assault Ship.

Essentially an Aircraft Carrier for the Marines.

831 feet long; just over 100 feet wide; displacing 41,000 tonnes.

Wasp-class amphibious assault ship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top