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Old 04-30-2014, 06:11 AM
 
Location: SC
8,793 posts, read 8,111,109 times
Reputation: 12991

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No, i did not misspoke.

There are solar plants (what i actually said) that produce (make) power day and night. Not panels, plants.

These plants produce power by heating molten sodium during sunshine, and drawing that (stored) thermal energy (without diesel or other non-radiant energy as a source) to produce power during the night at the plant. The PLANT is MAKING and STORING.

Your reply was techno-babble used in an attempt to dismiss my post.

If you stop trying to lecture people, you might start to read and respond to what they have posted. If you did not understand that a plant can make and store you could have just asked.
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:21 AM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,840,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blktoptrvl View Post

These plants produce power by heating molten sodium during sunshine, and drawing that (stored) thermal energy (without diesel or other non-radiant energy as a source) to produce power during the night at the plant. The PLANT is MAKING and STORING.
Again your first post said "make", there was no indication you were referring to storage.

How much power can such a plant store and and at what cost?

Being able to do something is one thing, being able to scale it to a practical application that is feasible is another.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Limbo
6,513 posts, read 7,517,609 times
Reputation: 6319
When I was in Israel, I remember someone saying that almost every house has its water heated by solar. We could do that in the American Southwest with ease. However, I don't think that the energy companies would promote any legislation that reduces their revenues.

I am all for producing electricity in individual dwellings.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:02 AM
 
Location: SC
8,793 posts, read 8,111,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Again your first post said "make", there was no indication you were referring to storage.
  • I posted that these plants can make power day or night.
  • Then you posted your snarky Definition of "Solar" to indicate that the sun must be shining in order to make power.
  • Based on the definition YOU posted I corrected you and informed you that these plants use stored energy to MAKE power when the sun is not shining.
I never changed anything, you just made assumtions that were wrong.
But that's OK... You can go on and continue your lecture without me.
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:23 AM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,840,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcee squared View Post
When I was in Israel, I remember someone saying that almost every house has its water heated by solar. We could do that in the American Southwest with ease. However, I don't think that the energy companies would promote any legislation that reduces their revenues.

I am all for producing electricity in individual dwellings.
Why would you need legislation to do that? We had basic sytem set up 20 years ago in cabin we have here in the Northeast, only good in the summer but it was better than cold showers with well water. If I lived in an area hat was hot all the time I know I'd have one for the house.

You can actually build something yourself fairly cheap or buy a thermal system relatively cheap, they are not complicated at all. Thermal systems are vastly more cost effective than PV cells but of course there is limitations to where you can use them.
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:38 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
4,790 posts, read 2,774,635 times
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Default Power, power everywhere

Quote:
Originally Posted by MynameisnotPeter View Post
By almost I mean, during the day, also charging a battery for night, also having regular electricity available to use for backup? Or would this never be legal? It's rob electricity companies of money. But the sun is a natural resource that we could use for free electricity.

I also thought should water be free since its essential to life, but then I thought if it was some people would take advantage and use excessive amounts of water that they don't need.


I'll have to read the rest of the thread, but all life on Earth is solar-powered. The fossil fuels are stored sunlight - oil, natgas, coal - are the end product of a very long time under heat and pressure acting on plant material. Even nuclear - all the heavier elements - come from suns, if not directly from our particular sun.

The hydrologic cycle - waves, dams running turbines - and wind power all depend on the energy output from the sun.

Fusion has been on the horizon - in four more years - for a long time now. It would be more feasible to get up a Skyhook - basically an elevator into space - cutting space exploration/manufacturing costs, and put up farms of solar energy collectors in orbit. Then with rectennas at the point of use, you can beam power down to wherever you want it.
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Old 04-30-2014, 02:12 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,709 posts, read 30,615,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcee squared View Post
When I was in Israel, I remember someone saying that almost every house has its water heated by solar.
That was decades ago. Now many of the houses have been replaced by apartment buildings. Now the limited area on the roof is used for water storage tanks instead of solar panels.
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Old 04-30-2014, 02:52 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
4,790 posts, read 2,774,635 times
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Default Sol Invictus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
That was decades ago. Now many of the houses have been replaced by apartment buildings. Now the limited area on the roof is used for water storage tanks instead of solar panels.


Israel is still working on solar - and being in desert, with low oil/natgas supplies, it makes sense that they're shooting for 10% energy from renewables by 2020 - see Solar power in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They're doing lots of research in the Negev - which is desert anyway, & so solar research there isn't taking land away from another purpose.
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Old 04-30-2014, 05:08 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,709 posts, read 30,615,731 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
Israel is still working on solar - and being in desert, with low oil/natgas supplies, it makes sense that they're shooting for 10% energy from renewables by 2020

They're doing lots of research in the Negev - which is desert anyway, & so solar research there isn't taking land away from another purpose.
Your link is now out of date due to the Natural Gas find and is due to come on line this year.

Israel and its natural resources: What a gas! | The Economist

They are creating numerous fields, but they are not getting enough bang for buck. But as long as there are investors then there will be R&D.

11 new solar projects to harness Israel

What is a Megawatt?
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Old 05-01-2014, 07:11 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
4,790 posts, read 2,774,635 times
Reputation: 4910
Default Not hiding their light under a bushel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Your link is now out of date due to the Natural Gas find and is due to come on line this year.

Israel and its natural resources: What a gas! | The Economist

They are creating numerous fields, but they are not getting enough bang for buck. But as long as there are investors then there will be R&D.

11 new solar projects to harness Israel

What is a Megawatt?


Yes, natgas is good, but you'll note that the potential fields are out in the Med, & the richest potential fields the furthest out. There will be infrastructure - wellheads, piping, pumps, etc. that will need to be guarded. & there's the possibility of mere natural disaster, too. & see how the political alignment now requires Greek alliances, replacing Turkish alliances that are becoming frayed.

No, Europe - at least industrialized Europe - is looking to solar power generation projects in N. Africa to help ease Europe off of over-reliance on natgas - specifically from Russia. Israel has a massive area it can devote to solar energy capture, without disturbing other industrial efforts. Sure, they'll probably pursue the natgas exploitation project - Why not? But Israel is in a precarious situation, in terms of energy sufficiency.

In their shoes, I'd pursue every likely avenue to ease the energy deficit they face.
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